Any success for tax refund while training?

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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby lakeland » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:28 pm

I'd be interested in the source for this post - it wasn't immediately obvious if this is an official HMRC announcement?

Maybe they'll change the rules going forward or for current cohorts? Who knows.
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Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby Bela » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:30 pm

I understand it is an official brief from HMRC sent to all payroll/ESR teams in the country. The person that posted it works as admin on one of the teams. There's some discussion on the Facebook group about parts of the information that are false (e.g. That we work independently, that the academic side is the only 'training' part of the course, when all of our work is formally assessed) and about contesting the decision, but we'll just have to wait and see what they do with it now. Apparently it was only sent around today.


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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby BlueCat » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:39 pm

I can't see it on the Widening Access FB group I am a member of.....is there another group I'm missing?
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Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby Bela » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:14 am

I've just checked and it's on the post-2013 group, but it would apply to anyone from what it says.


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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby BlueCat » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:42 am

Ah OK, that's why I can't see it. The two could very well be being treated differently, though, as the WATS scheme ended in 2013. Thanks for sharing it.
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby Bela » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:53 am

Not sure where that information has come from as there is no change in the scheme after 2013 (I know, as my whole cohort have received a refund, as have the two years below me). The only change is that payroll process these payments now, rather than HMRC. However the advice from HMRC at the moment seems to be that Trainee Clinical Psychologists are not eligible. Although I think there is a good case for challenging that!
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby BlueCat » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:53 am

There is though, as the scheme ended in 2013, so there's different rules under which claims are being made. Pre 2013 people are claiming under the widening access scheme, post 2013, people are claiming under the auspices of their pay being bursary rather than salary. There's no refund for bursaries pre 2013. Two different reasons, same effect. Good luck with it x
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Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby Bela » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:12 am

Not sure where you've got that from BlueCat but it's certainly not my experience of the process. We all applied under the widening access scheme, got letters to say we were eligible for the scheme from HMRC and that payroll would issue our refund. Having spoke to HMRC and payroll about it the only change is how we are refunded, not anything to do with the scheme itself (which is why many people are contesting the NI contributions as some people have got them, some haven't). The reason for the payment coming from payroll is because guidance was issued to all trusts in 2013 showing how they could amend ESR codes so we wouldn't have to pay the tax in the first place, rather than paying it and then having it refunded through HMRC. Unfortunately payroll took a long time to begin following the guidance! I think I saw someone had posted on the general widening access group this morning and there have been lots of discussion about it since. I'm sure people who have received refunds won't be asked for it back but it is worrying for those that haven't yet claimed.


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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby Peach » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:55 pm

Ugh what a mess this whole thing is and the main reason why I had given it such a wide bearth for so long. Why didn't they have the sense to conduct this review before issuing any refunds to psychologists? :roll:
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby BenJMan » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:48 am

Bela wrote: I'm sure people who have received refunds won't be asked for it back but it is worrying for those that haven't yet claimed.


HMRC don't work like that generally speaking, even if it was their mistake they will claim every penny back from people and they have the legal right to do so. The process will be applied equally to those who have already applied and those who have yet to apply.

My belief was always in line with BlueCat's, which is that for years we have been told that WATS ended in 2013, I think that came from the early info/documents released which were urky at best and specifically asked 'Did you begin training before 2013', thus implying the scheme ended then. The current official HMRC website (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/widening-ac ... st-workers) definitely doesn't say that and refers specifically to post 2013 applications for WATS being dealt with differently, but under the same scheme.
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby Saf » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:22 pm



This was just send to us in our trainee message group, my understanding is that we'll start getting taxed from our next pay checks on, but will email the lady who deals with this to confirm :shock:
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Postby pip28 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:09 am

BlueCat wrote:There is though, as the scheme ended in 2013, so there's different rules under which claims are being made. Pre 2013 people are claiming under the widening access scheme, post 2013, people are claiming under the auspices of their pay being bursary rather than salary. There's no refund for bursaries pre 2013. Two different reasons, same effect. Good luck with it x



Hi Bluecat. It hasn't ended, I'm a current first year trainee and we are (for now) getting our our payslips the widening access scheme and not paying any tax through PAYE. However our course director anticiptes this will stop soon and if we are found we should gace bewn paying tax HMRC will of course claw it back. Absolute nightmare. We've all signed up for things financially on the understanding we were part of it and now are going to have 270 a month less take home pay! If anyone has anymore info please keep us updated. I'm going to assume the worst as I was supposed to be meeting a mortgage advisor next week and dont wanr to sign up to a mortgage I can't afford :'(. Our pay roll haven't said anything yet, we actually contacted the program team as we had heard rumours. So not sure how much I'm getting paid at the end of the month of the email abpve was sent out to all Payrolls at the trusts. What a mess.
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