Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Issues related to pay, contracts, Agenda for Change, the NHS, the BPS, unions, etc.

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby Alexander » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:16 pm

I agree with you both that to avoid going for RC would be a huge error. If you feel strongly about it (which I hope you do), create a post on the Google Group I linked above or email acp@webcollect.org.uk. I would also suggest making some noise on Facebook and Twitter, which seem to be major channels for discussing this stuff. I feel sufficiently strong about the issue to state that I am not interested in joining a new organisation that rejects RC status. If enough of the ACP's potential membership do the same, they have little choice but to listen.
User avatar
Alexander
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:19 pm

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby lingua_franca » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:51 pm

On a separate note, I don't think they can have given much thought to that acronym. There is already an Association of Child Psychotherapists, which is the regulatory/accrediting body for psychoanalytic child therapists who have done the Tavistock training. It's hardly the most serious dilemma, but having two ACPs involved in mental health is going to be confusing.
"Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
"Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
Piglet was comforted by this.
- A.A. Milne.
lingua_franca
 
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:29 pm

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby Alexander » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:30 pm

The organisation's full title is ACP-UK - bit clunky though.
User avatar
Alexander
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:19 pm

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby Spatch » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:04 pm

Here is the most recent newsletter which was requested to be circulated widely (taken from the PDF so apols for formatting):

Welcome to the second edition of ACP-UK News, which will be circulated monthly.
ACP-UK A BODY TO REPRESENT CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY & CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGISTS


MOVING FORWARD
To achieve the mission, purpose and objectives of a professional body for Clinical Psychologists, it is intended that ACP-UK will form a Community interest company (CIC). CIC’s are a special type of limited company which exists to benefit the community rather than private shareholders. CICs are designed for social enterprises that want to use their profits and assets for the public good. Unlike a charity, a CIC will allow payment to Directors (roughly equivalent to Trustees) and other members who work for it. Directors will be responsible for the operations of the CIC and accountable to the membership.
ACP-UK WILL HAVE INCLUSIVE, CONSISTENT, RELIABLE, PROFESSIONAL & ACCOUNTABLE LEADERSHIP. APPOINTED AND SOME ELECTED PEOPLE WILL BE PAID FOR THEIR WORK RATHER THAN VOLUNTEER.

ACP-UK will have three directors and a National Committee that will work together. Legally a CIC is required to submit Articles of Association which contains the purpose of the company as well as the duties and responsibilities of its members clearly defined. To get up and running ACP-UK will have articles of association based on the developing constitution and the constitution will be developed. With an emphasis on social business, CICs can seek crowd funding, bid for grants and National Lottery funding and can rapidly expand and diversify. For more information on the benefits of a CIC see: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... s-of-a-cic

ELECTIONS

Elections for the roles of community interest company directors and committee members will be held in October 2017. The aim is to do this by an electronic ballot. Role descriptions and how to vote will be circulated. Nominations will be invited for all those with full voting rights.

The ACP-UK elected Committee will lead a draft constitution consultation

MEMBERSHIP
Categories of membership:
• FULL – Registered with the HCPC as a qualified CLINICAL psychologist. Has voting rights.
• INTERNATIONAL – Registered with an equivalent professional body as a CLINICAL psychologist. Has voting rights.
• AFFILIATE – e.g. other applied psychologists, members of the public, psychology graduates, trainees, psychological wellbeing & psychosocial intervention practitioners (PWPs & PSIs). Without voting rights.

The international category will allow those registered with the HCPC but working abroad and those living abroad e.g. clinical psychologists in EIRE and working in Northern Ireland to belong.

SUBSCRIPTIONS
The full and international membership fee for an initial 18-month period from September 2017 until the end of March 2019 will be £200; the affiliate fee for the same period will be £50. The annual subscription will normally be due on the 31st March of each year starting 2019. As startup costs are considerable full and international members are invited to pay £70 now and affiliate members £50 with the remainder of the fee on the 1st January 2018. A direct debit payment scheme (e.g. monthly/quarterly payments) will be put in place. All members will be able to pay the full amount when first asked if they wish to.

We estimate needing £150,000 for ACP-UK to be viable. Please pay subscriptions promptly.
Without subscriptions ACP-UK will not live.

DONATIONS
You may also wish to donate money as well as subscribe and be a member of ACP-UK. However, as ACP-UK will not be a charity gift aid rules do not apply. If you would like to donate please contact Mike Wang to arrange a payment.
Making payments & joining aking payments & joining aking payments & joiningaking payments & joining aking payments & joiningaking payments & joining aking payments & joining aking payments & joining

Everyone who completed the survey about what you wanted from a professional body https://t.co/6bcbcoxAc0 or contacted Mike Wang separately will be sent an email request to pay a subscription using a secure payment system this month. Subscriptions are tax deductible.

OVER 4,300 SURVEY RESPONSES SHAPED THE ACP-UK DRAFT CONSTITUTION AND THE ATICLES OF ASSOCIATION AS A COMMUNITY INTEREST COMPANY

This survey will close at the end of September 2017. Anyone wishing to join ACP-UK after this date should contact Mike Wang directly mw125@leicester.ac.uk.Please note we will stop using the electronic survey to collect views and contact details after the 30th September 2017.

WORK STREAMS
To organise the setting up work we now have five work streams currently led by Alumni members.
1. Internal & External Communication/Liaison
Ruth Stocks
2. Elections
Reg Morris, Alex Stirzaker
3. Infrastructure, Constitution & Finance
Reg Morris, Alex Stirzaker Mike Wang
4. Communications & Website
Angela Busuttil, Ché Rosebert with Mike Berger
5. Citizens’ Assembly
Alex Stirzaker, Che Rosebert with Simon Mudie
The Citizens’ assembly To ensure that the new organisation reflects the needs of both its membership and of those with whom members have contact, co-production will sit at the heart of the ACP-UK. It has not been finalised how this will take place but one of the proposals that is currently being considered is the idea of a citizens’ assembly which often advises an organisation on its development. A small group of Alumni members will be taking this work forward to devise a working proposal for the organisation to consider as it forms. For more information on Scotland’s citizens assembly as an example we can learn from see:
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/1 ... parliament

A PUBLIC LIVE STREAMED MEETING TO AID A PROCESS OF MEANINGFUL MEMBERSHIP AND STAKEHOLDER ENGAGEMENT WILL BE HELD 6.00 – 8.00 P.M. THURSDAY 19TH OCTOBER MANCHESTER VENUE TO BE CONFIRMED
To aid a process of meaningful involvement and inclusion from the ACP-UK membership and key stakeholders The North West Psychological Practitioners Network are facilitating an open public discussion with representatives from key stakeholders such as but not exclusively people who have accessed clinical psychology services, the Alumni, The BPS, The DCP Executive, The Minorities in Clinical Training Group and Psychologists for Social Change as well as clinical psychologists who are not currently BPS members. This would be a step towards building a citizens’ assembly.
Invites will be emailed and posted on @NWPPN
ACP-UK information will be circulated by Mike Wang, posted on the new twitter account @UK_ACP and The Future of UK Clinical Psychology google group.

FIVE CURRENT WORKSTREAMS: INTERNAL/EXTERNAL COMMUNICATION & LIAISON; ELECTIONS; INFRASTRUCTURE, CONSTITUTION, ARTICLES OF ASSOCIATION & FINANCE; COMMUNICATIONS & WEBSITE; CITIZENS’ ASSEMBLY
VOLUNTEERING

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL OFFERS OF SUPPORT

Please bear with us whilst we put a process in place to use all your offers of help strategically, effectively and efficiently. We are trying to build an inclusive organisation, and assume for some of you we will be moving too fast and for some of you too slow. We are keeping a list of who is offering what and we will be asking people to take on specific tasks within the workstreams. Contact Mike Wang if you wish to volunteer.

MAKING EXTERNAL RELATIONSHIPS
For ACP-UK to achieve its mission, purpose and objectives multiple relationships will need to be formed. It will be essential to have good working relationships with existing professional bodies. So far, the Alumni group have made some progress with The British Psychological Society, The Association of Educational Psychologists & The Royal College of Psychiatry.

The British Psychological Society’s (BPS) Board of Trustees has allowed the Division of Clinical Psychology’s National Executive to enter discussions with ACP-UK and have asked to be updated regarding the progress of ACP-UK. This is essential as we examine areas of competition and strive to work together in areas of National importance, be they about the governance and leadership of clinical psychology or for example influencing national policy for Society’s benefit. We anticipate that some clinical psychologists and affiliates will choose to belong to ACP-UK and the BPS. and some will choose to belong to one professional body.

EVERY ACP-UK MEMBER SHOULD INDEPENDENTLY CHOOSE IF THEY WISH TO ALSO BE A MEMBER OF THE BPS.
As current Chair of the Division of Clinical Psychology’s Psychosis & Complex Mental Health Faculty Ché Rosebert says ‘I will continue to belong to the BPS because of member benefits provided such as high-quality continuing professional development and the opportunity to lead or stay involved with BPS national external consultations, policy work and campaigns.’

The Association of Educational Psychologists (AEP) began life in 1962 instigated by the need to advocate for and protect the employment rights of Educational Psychologists. AEP is a professional
body and trade union with a membership of around 3,500. Many of its members belong to both the AEP and BPS. The AEP enjoy a good relationship with the BPS Division of Education & Child Psychology and our regulator the Health and Care Professions Council (HCPC). Ché Rosebert has had two meetings with AEP General Secretary Kate Fallon learning from how the AEP started and discussing areas of mutual interest for example psychologists working in schools and national child and young peoples’ health programmes.

As ACP-UK forms and becomes a legal entity we will be able to build more and more formal relationships, not just with other professional bodies but service users and carers, politicians and other parties with mutual interests.
The Royal College of Psychiatry (RCPsych) have extended an invitation to meet with ACP-UK later this month. Many clinical psychologists have worked jointly with RCPsych over many years with many National initiatives that have led to policy change. ACP-UK intends to build on this tradition.

THE AEP HAS AN INSPIRING STORY. STARTING OPERATIONS IN A FRONT ROOM, THEIR LONGEVITY AND SUCCESSFUL POLITICAL CAMPAIGNING TO BECOME STATUTORY IS A LESSON ACP-UK CAN LEARN FROM.
The word is definitely out about this new professional body for clinical psychologists. We’re receiving invitations to meet and formally sign up to work every week. However, ACP-UK cannot formally sign up for anything until subscriptions are paid and the CIC is registered.
Shameless plug alert:

Irrelevant Experience: The Secret Diary of an Assistant Psychologist is available at Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Irrelevant-Experience-Assistant-Psychologist-ebook/dp/B00EQFE5JW/
User avatar
Spatch
Team Member
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: The other side of paradise

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby Sangreal » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:14 am

I hope this doesn't come across as too negative, as it is not intended that way; but I know I am not the only one in this position, and am curious about whether I have missed some important points...

I have been very enthusiastic about the formation of a body that could “potentially” better represent the CP profession, though I am disappointed to see that fees have been set at £200. Whilst I understand that the formation of a new body such as ACP-UK requires vast amounts of time and money, I am very wary of parting with such a sum before anything useful has been guaranteed. E.g. for various reasons, chartered membership with the BPS can be invaluable, and I (occasionally) find time to read The Psychologist, yet can I afford to double my professional subscriptions at this stage?

We all know of the squeezes on pay vs the general costs of living – having completed the DClin last year, I now find myself with a new mortgage, planning a wedding, and a multitude of other outgoings that require careful savings, and a spare £200 is not that easy to find in the current climate. Whilst I am grateful to be a Band7, the salary no longer pays for what we thought it would when planning our lives a few years ago... I know many others in my cohort were also enthusiastic and considering signing up, but are now planning to “wait and see”.

I am disappointed to hear above that Royal College status is not a consideration at this time, possibly (though likely not entirely) due to the political views of a few. I hope this can be considered further in due course, should the ACP-UK become a well established organisation within UK healthcare.

I am also unclear whether the affiliate membership is open to qualified CPs too, or is it just non-CPs, trainees and public? I would be more open to parting with a smaller amount (e.g. £50) to contribute and stay “in the loop”, until I understand more about the benefits of full membership and take that further leap of faith.

Can someone please list the confirmed benefits to the individual of full membership to the ACP-UK at this point? Not a wishlist of things that may or may not come to pass, but what is so far guaranteed as a benefit/a return for our money should we take that leap of faith and join in full?
Worrying is like a rocking chair - it gives you something to do, but ultimately gets you nowhere.
User avatar
Sangreal
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:30 pm
Location: UK

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby Spatch » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:58 pm

Can someone please list the confirmed benefits to the individual of full membership to the ACP-UK at this point? Not a wishlist of things that may or may not come to pass, but what is so far guaranteed as a benefit/a return for our money should we take that leap of faith and join in full?


I don't think there are any "confirmed benefits" at this stage as the group is still being formally set up and launched. However, it basically is a lobby group that looks after its members interests like the BMA does for medics (which the BPS and HCPC definitely won't for us). There won't be any benefits like shiny magazines or discounts, because the scope is for things like national representation, contract negotiation, collective bargaining and getting CPs voice heard in places where it matters. Benefits should be in future salaries and working conditions, but you can't expect that to take place before the organisation is started.

If you want something tangible, the existance and ascendance of clinical psychology in it's current form can be atttributed to the work of a group of american clinical psychologists lobbyists (the dirty dozen) who basically did this in the 1930s in the US,which had massive impact globally. (see The Practice of Psychology: The Battle for Professionalism By Rogers Wright, Nicholas A. Cummings for more details)

It is a leap of faith, you are right, and I don't have a huge amount of money either. But this kind of group lives and dies by it's resources and 200 is not that much compared to what any lobby group would need (in way of comparison it's £450 for medics). Personally don't want to live with the feeling that I could have done or supported something but didn't when the opportunity was there. If nothing comes of it, I can rest easy that I at least tried rather than just whinging and hoping someone else will do something (which is what led to this situation where an UK-ACP was necessary ).
Shameless plug alert:

Irrelevant Experience: The Secret Diary of an Assistant Psychologist is available at Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Irrelevant-Experience-Assistant-Psychologist-ebook/dp/B00EQFE5JW/
User avatar
Spatch
Team Member
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: The other side of paradise

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby Toria » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:17 pm

I can empathise with all of the above views, and am also undecided about joking the ACP at this stage. I appreciate Spatch's reply but want to point out that the BMA is the medic union, and as far as I know the ACP will not be a union for its members like the BMA/Unite, unless I'm mistaken?
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf - Jon Kabat-Zinn
User avatar
Toria
 
Posts: 933
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:00 am

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby Spatch » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:59 pm

Iit could go down the union route in future, but unions only really work effectively if there are a huge number of people that can withhold labour. Clinical psychology is too small by itself to have any major immediate impact (as opposed to medics and nurses who vastly outnumber us).

I will request that one of them join the thread to discuss.
Shameless plug alert:

Irrelevant Experience: The Secret Diary of an Assistant Psychologist is available at Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Irrelevant-Experience-Assistant-Psychologist-ebook/dp/B00EQFE5JW/
User avatar
Spatch
Team Member
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: The other side of paradise

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby Sangreal » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:37 pm

It is a leap of faith, you are right, and I don't have a huge amount of money either. But this kind of group lives and dies by it's resources and 200 is not that much compared to what any lobby group would need (in way of comparison it's £450 for medics). Personally don't want to live with the feeling that I could have done or supported something but didn't when the opportunity was there. If nothing comes of it, I can rest easy that I at least tried rather than just whinging and hoping someone else will do something (which is what led to this situation where an UK-ACP was necessary ).

Thanks Spatch. Completely agree with you there - just a bit of a battle with the ol' bank balance (on a not unrelated note, my car has developed a worryingly expensive rattling noise this morning, which is very unhelpful...!). :?
Worrying is like a rocking chair - it gives you something to do, but ultimately gets you nowhere.
User avatar
Sangreal
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:30 pm
Location: UK

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby randomposter » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:46 pm

Surely all Applied Psychologists together would therefore have more power?
randomposter
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:13 pm

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby BenJMan » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:52 am

What is presently irritating me about the google group discussions about RC status is that anyone asking what happened and why is seemingly met with cries on 'why quibble over what we call ourselves now, we need to focus on the organisation'.

That is an easy position to take when your choice of organisation (not supported by a majority) is the one being pushed forward with a quiet dropping of the commitment to pursue RC status. I've been so excited for this group.. and I am not at all a royalist, but I do feel the RC status confers a whole lot of advantages that we would be very foolish to ignore. One of my great qualms about the BPS was it's penchant to lead from a distanced, top down position, this simple choice to not even make a formal commitment to pursuing something that has been widely supported by potential members smacks of the same arrogance for me. It is enough to drive me away from membership for now (something I'd wholeheartedly intended to do), not because of whether it will be an RC or not.. that was always a process to investigate and succeed or fail in, but because of the way it is being handled at the top and the lack of respect it shows to the potential member base to be less than transparent about the issues involved in making that decision.
I think a hero is any person really intent on making this a better place for all people ~ Maya Angelou.
User avatar
BenJMan
Moderator
 
Posts: 2202
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:16 pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby Spatch » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:27 pm

...Or you could join, volunteer to be part of it and be directly involved in the decision making. They are going to need all the help they can get.
Shameless plug alert:

Irrelevant Experience: The Secret Diary of an Assistant Psychologist is available at Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Irrelevant-Experience-Assistant-Psychologist-ebook/dp/B00EQFE5JW/
User avatar
Spatch
Team Member
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: The other side of paradise

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby hettie » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:55 am

As a counselling psychologist I feel they've missed a trick... An royal college of practitioner psychologists would have far more numbers (and therefore clout). And in addition the new groups aims seem so aligned with the ethos of counselling and community psychology that it could look like a land grab... I'm off the "united we stand" perspective and I am saddened that many of my Counselling psychology peers are seeing this as a step towards protectionism and an ensuing fight over resources/legitimacy. No one wins in that scenario...I keep thinking of the splitters scene in the Life of Brian. I received a polite but firm rebuff when I asked to join the Google group. I supervise trainee clinical psychologists, I've lectured on the local clin psych course and I'm trying to work with my colleagues to understand what's going on. And yes maybe I might give another perspective (but you know that might be a good thing?). If any of the organisers would like to hear a counselling psychologists perspective there are a number of us who would be very willing to engage...
hettie
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:00 pm

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby Gilly » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:23 am

I worry as always, it feel like 'perfect' may be the enemy of 'good', and I worry that those who do not find a perfect fit with the ACP and therefore choose not to support it at this stage/wait and see are inevitably going to lead to it not being able to do what it can.

I've chosen to join the ACP and have volunteered to support it when it needs me because I believe this offers us the best opportunity to do something different, even if its not quite what I would have wanted either (I also wanted a Royal College) - because the alternative is the status quo of the BPS/DCP, and frankly I'm not ready to accept that level of mediocrity for our profession. £200 is a price I'm willing to pay for a chance that things could be different.

In regards to the clinical/practitioner psychologist form of the body, from my own perspective a lot of the difficulty with the BPS model comes from being a division which contributes a lot of the funding/membership numbers, but being very poorly represented in relation to that power (as the BPS has to wear many hats/chooses not to wear ones which its members want). Having a look at the breakdown of registered psychologists on the HCPC register, its roughly:

21,500 HCPC registered Practitioner Psychologists, and eyeballing the graphs we get:

55.82% - Clinical Psychologists
19.53% - Educational Psychologists
9.77% - Counselling Psychologists
4.65% - Forensic Psychologists
4.65% - Occupational Psychologists
2.33% - Health Psychologists
1.16% Sport and Exercise Psychologists

So I don't see how we would easily balance the needs of those different professions without it either being essentially the 'ACP' in regards to Clinical having all the voting power, or clinical feeling like once again their voice gets lost trying to balance the competing demands and make everyone happy (and subsequently making no one happy...). The ACP survey overwhelmingly support a specific college, and it cast off on that idea. It may be in the future that the group changes.

I would argue that the aims the ACP has stated isn't necessarily a 'land grab' for domains which counselling psychology has possession of, but a consequence of the vastly overlapping areas of the two professions which don't differentiate particularly easily.
You're not calling for help, are you?! ;)

"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity" - Abraham Lincoln.
User avatar
Gilly
Moderator
 
Posts: 1853
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Doodling on Paint somewhere...

Re: Campaign for a Royal College of Psychologists

Postby BenJMan » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:15 am

Spatch wrote:...Or you could join, volunteer to be part of it and be directly involved in the decision making. They are going to need all the help they can get.


Or they could begin the organisation from the starting point that it's target audience overwhelmingly supported instead of forging an entirely new organisation and then asking people to join if they want to change it in the future. If I wanted to spend my time arguing for change that the majority already agree on I would've stuck with the BPS..
I think a hero is any person really intent on making this a better place for all people ~ Maya Angelou.
User avatar
BenJMan
Moderator
 
Posts: 2202
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:16 pm
Location: Lancashire

PreviousNext

Return to Professional/Employment Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests