Any success for tax refund while training?

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mungle
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by mungle » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:32 pm

Today I heard that tax but not NI could be refunded for courses that started after 2013. Is this correct?

Ppepper25
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by Ppepper25 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:26 am

I think the information is conflicting. On MSE it has a table showing dates 'to present day' suggesting claims can be made still, not just to 2013:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/nhs-reclaim

And also on this link it says Claims can be made to 2015:

http://www.bradfordnhspayrollservices.c ... -training/

Im Confused! I'm wondering if the date was 2013 at first to help process the first batch?

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miriam
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by miriam » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:34 pm

Hi there,
I am writing from the BBC Victoria Derbyshire show.
We are running a story tomorrow looking into the over-taxation of NHS workers who were employed during their initial training. As far back as 1999 NHS staff in trained employment are owed tax rebates. Some have received thousands of pounds and some are struggling to claim back what they are owed.
We are looking to find individuals who have experienced this - having either received their tax rebate or are finding it hard to claim back.
We need people for the show tomorrow morning, so it is a fast turn around. If you or anyone you know has experienced this please contact me by phone or email:
alexgatenby1@gmail.com and 07917888695, or the desk number is 02036143111
Many thanks.
Miriam

See my blog at http://clinpsyeye.wordpress.com

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Borrowed Cone
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by Borrowed Cone » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:23 pm

It's a trap!
"We can rebuild him. We have the technology. But I don't want to spend a lot of money..."

astra
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by astra » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:37 am

Not really a good idea to go to the media with this one.
From the point of view of mindfulness, as long as you're breathing there's more right with you than wrong with you. Jon Kabat-Zinn

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BenJMan
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by BenJMan » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:34 am

The media have already got it..which way it's spun is probably up for grabs.

NHS professionals grabbing money or HMRC taking tax they never should have done. From what I can see of the shows online clips it's a bit sensationalist but generally promoting stories about people struggling
I think a hero is any person really intent on making this a better place for all people ~ Maya Angelou.

astra
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by astra » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:12 pm

But if they knew what our training salaries were and how much we got back, there'd be an outcry I'm sure. Different with lower paid employees of course, that would make a good story.
From the point of view of mindfulness, as long as you're breathing there's more right with you than wrong with you. Jon Kabat-Zinn

linsalina
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by linsalina » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:07 am

Hi all,

I'm embarking on the brave (stupid) move of making an individual claim since my trust aren't offering any help with this. I think I would rather do this via email so that I have a paper trail. Has anyone got an email address for the widening access to training hmrc team? I've googled and trawled through the results but can't seem to find email contact details anywhere.

Thanks very much! x

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BlueCat
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by BlueCat » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:21 pm

Good grief. Seemed too good to be true but has actually happened :-)
There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes. Billy Connolly.

astra
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by astra » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:44 pm

its a good feeling when it comes through isn't it BlueCat!?!
From the point of view of mindfulness, as long as you're breathing there's more right with you than wrong with you. Jon Kabat-Zinn

Ppepper25
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by Ppepper25 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:51 pm

So I submitted an individual claim for my year as a pwp trainee. My reply back said 'the responsibility to correct any overpaid tax and NICs for tax years 2013 onwards is with the NHS trust that you completed your training with...... If your employer confirms that you meet the necessary conditions they will need to make an adjustment to correct your tax and NICs contributions through their payroll.

What happens if I don't work for the trust any more? And no longer work within the NHS? How do I then get the money back?

Any help would be appreciated!

Ppepper25
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by Ppepper25 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:24 am

In my letter this link was referred to: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual ... l/eim06237 stating 'if you believe you satisfy the conditions of the Statement of Practice 4/86 (https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual ... l/eim06237) and are entitled to a refund, then please contact your employer.

Reading through the above, I'm not sure that it's the same as the WATS policies, as if the ceiling is £15,480 then how to those on the doctorate claim their tax and NI back? They see that any more than the above amount suggests it's not a scholarship and 'In consequence the payments are likely to be earnings from the employment and should be taxed in full.' Seems inconsistent to me.....

Is the above link applicable/in line with the WATs?

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Peach
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by Peach » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:43 pm

I'm really at a loss with how to move forward with this. I've tried going to my previous employing trust and they've steadfastly refused and advised I submit an individual application. I then tried an individual application with proof that I was enrolled on a training course and also that my trust were refusing. HMRC have just advised me to get my trust to submit an application as they don't process individual ones. GRRR I just don't know what to do, I'm getting nowhere, any advice? I don't have facebook so I can't access the facebook widning access group.
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BenJMan
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by BenJMan » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:23 pm

All I did was submit a second letter saying my trust have refused to process group applications and supplied the email from them to show it. After that they processed my individual application fairly quickly :/ But maybe they are becoming stricter over time and volume of applications..
I think a hero is any person really intent on making this a better place for all people ~ Maya Angelou.

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Bela
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Re: Any success for tax refund while training?

Post by Bela » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:09 pm

There's been a post on the widening access facebook group today that may have thrown a further spanner in the works. I've copied it in for people that may not have seen it.

HMRC have just done a case review on trainee clinical psychology courses and deemed it ineligible for tax and NI refunds. Has anyone else heard about this yet?
Memo from HMRC to payroll
HMRC has now had the opportunity to consider the role of a Trainee Clinical Psychologist (TCP) and whether or not payments made to TCPs are exempt from income tax and can be disregarded from earnings for National Insurance contributions (NICs). We have reached our conclusions based on a small sample of contracts, handbooks and job-role descriptions that have been provided.
Contract of Training
Based on the sample reviewed, it is HMRC’s view that the contracts given to TCPs, and the terms on which they are engaged, do not constitute contracts of training.
Scholarship income
Provided the relevant conditions are met, income tax legislation gives an exemption from income tax for payments of scholarship income. There are similar provisions for NICs which allow payments of scholarship income to be disregarded from earnings. For NICs there is an additional condition which requires that the payment does not exceed £15480 in an academic year. If this limit is exceeded, no disregard at all can be given and NICs would be due on the full payment of scholarship income.
It is HMRC’s view however, that the payments made to TCPs under their contracts do not constitute payments of scholarship income as defined in the income tax and NICs legislation.
It is HMRC’s view that TCPs do not receive a specific/specified amount that could be said to be scholarship income for the training requirements they are obliged to complete as part of their role. They are instead paid a salary for the full range of duties they are employed to undertake, which includes an element of training, in order to gain a recognised qualification in Clinical Psychology.
Contract of Employment
Through our review, we have established that a TCPs duties include a mixture of training and service as contracts require TCPs to undertake clinical practice and research activity, as well as academic studies. The service element of the role, given to the relevant NHS organisation, could not be viewed as minor as TCPs are required to undertake clinical practice which includes:
• working independently on a day to day basis;
• complex psychological interviews and assessments;
• running therapeutic groups;
• carrying out appropriate psychological intervention.
In practice, given this requirement for a mixture of training and service, these are effectively contracts of apprenticeship that are intended to end with the TCP gaining a recognised qualification.
Conclusion
It is therefore HMRC’s opinion, based on this sample, that a TCP is engaged on a fixed-term contract that requires them to carry out a range of duties including; academic studies, clinical practice and research activity. They are paid a salary for carrying out this full range of activities, rather than being paid an amount of scholarship income specifically for attendance at a relevant educational establishment.
As the payment that TCPs receive is a payment of salary for undertaking the full range of duties they are contracted to perform, it follows that the tax exemption and NICs disregard do not apply to TCPs. The full amount paid is therefore correctly subject to income tax and Class 1 NICs, and a refund cannot be given. Tax and NICs should also be deducted from payments made to people currently working on contracts as TCPs or employed as TCPS in future.
If you disagree
It may be the case that some TCPs are on different contracts and terms of engagement to those that we have seen. If you, as an organisation, consider this to be the case, please forward a sample of the relevant documents (e.g. contracts, job specifications, job role descriptions etc.), so that we can fully review them and then inform you of our position.
If you, as an organisation, disagree with HMRC’s analysis of the information we have had provided, please explain the basis of your disagreement, and include any relevant evidence, to enable us to consider the matter further.
In the same vein, if you think that TCPs are on contracts of training please advise why you consider that to be the case. Alternatively, if you accept that the contracts are not contracts of training, but maintain that TCPs are paid an amount of scholarship income specifically for meeting their training requirements, please advise why you consider this to be the case and what element of payments made to TCPs should be considered to be scholarship income.​
Please provide this information to….via email/correspondence address.

I'm not sure what this means for those of us that have had refunds already! :shock:

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