Help Please, HR Nightmare

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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby BlueCat » Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:09 pm

I'm really sorry to hear that your hopes were dashed at the last minute. I too am someone who probably would not rest until I'd found out for sure what the limits were that I had breached and reassured myself that everything was above board. For interest, I had a day off sick last week with a bad cold and so had to do a return to work thing today. I was surprised how low my trust's sickness thresholds were for taking action. I thought I'd share them here for you. They were:

Three single episodes within six months, regardless of duration (so could be three lots of one day)

or

Four single episodes within a year, regardless of duration (so could be four lots of one day)

or

Any episode of ten days or more

or

Ten days cumulative over a year

I was surprised how low these thresholds were, certainly lower than in other places I have worked. Would you have exceeded these?

Of course there's wguarantee that your trust has similar thresholds, but I just thought it would be helpful to share the sort of sickness record that would be questioned within my trust.
There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes. Billy Connolly.
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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby Pixie » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:54 pm

BlueCat wrote: I was surprised how low my trust's sickness thresholds were for taking action.


Thanks for posting this, Bluecat. As someone who's new to the NHS, it's interesting to see how different the sickness policy is to local authority policy. I'm curious to know what action is taken if these thresholds are exceeded?

AryaStark - sorry youve found yourself in this situation and I hope you get the answers you need.
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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby BlueCat » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:31 am

Pixie wrote:
BlueCat wrote:Thanks for posting this, Bluecat. As someone who's new to the NHS, it's interesting to see how different the sickness policy is to local authority policy. I'm curious to know what action is taken if these thresholds are exceeded?.


These sorts of thresholds will be different in different trusts, this isn't a blanket NHS policy. I don't know what action would be taken, having never exceeded this or been in a management /supervisory capacity for someone who has. I'm guessing probably line management meeting, possible OH meeting, probably an attendance improvement plan.
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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby AryaStark » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:07 pm

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd post an update to my situation. After weeks of chasing the trust in order to retrieve a) my references via a subject access request to see my sickness and b) their policy on sickness so I can see how I've breached it (FOI request) I have finally received them. It looks like I am not in breach of their policy and I still do not understand how they have come to that decision. Part of me now is more leaning towards an internal person being offered the post at the last minute and them needing to remove me as a candidate somehow.
I've read my references and they are all honestly lovely. It's been a huge battle just to retrieve this information and that's why I do think it's more smoke and mirrors to something else. I just wish they would be honest with me and feel let down by it all. After so many months struggling to get an interview, to then get one and this happen...
I have used up a lot of time and resources (mainly emotional! :shock: ) chasing this up and now I feel I need to put those back in the applying to different trusts. I am still thinking of an email to send to the trust about it all now I have the information but this has all turned in to one anxiety-fuelled mess of waiting for emails to come through on my phone! Part of me wants to move on and get back to not feeling annoyed/upset over this all of the time.

Plus points (because I need them at times like this):
- My family are amazed at 'how well I am handling it'. Truth is, I allowed myself time to wallow and now I am kicking my butt in to gear, so to speak. I know that's how I have to deal with things otherwise they fuel my anxiety and stick with me.
- I have an interview in the next few weeks, not an AP position, but still mental health. A ward too, which could be interesting as I've only ever worked in the community. All fingers crossed this one goes better than the last!
- I am back in to the swing of applying and taloiring applications for AP posts in the hope I will get more interviews.
- I am glad it's not actually something I've done wrong (I hope!) and that my sickness is under both trusts policy standards.

To conclude;
Glad (hope) it's not me. Getting on the bike again. Still silently annoyed, but less so, and I won't let this determine whether or not I ever make it on to applying for Dclinpsy.
Thank you everyone for your help!
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby kathryn » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:43 pm

I was just reading this...ttps://www.gov.uk/job-offers-your-rights
Sounds like you could technically sue them!

Although obviously I understand why you might not want to invest any more time in dealing with this trust. Well done on pursuing this and I'm sorry it happened to you. Good luck for your interview (and interviews beyond that!)
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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby eponymous85 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:17 am

That is of course your choice if you don't want to pursue it any more, or feel you now couldn't work for that trust anyway. I think if this was me I'd feel even more determined to pursue it, given that they've clearly made a mistake! Even if what you suspect is true about an internal candidate, it's not legal! Do you know for sure they've offered the position to someone else?
The mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure. Thoughts are not etched on the inside of skulls, to be perused by any invader. The mind is a complex and many layered thing.
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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby alexh » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:22 pm

I'm glad you found out, it sounded fishy.

Employment lawyer can help you.
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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby ell » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:31 pm

Good to get an update on this one! It sounds terribly stressful, and you did well to pursue it this far. I can completely understand why you would want to let it go and move on with your life!

Similar to eponymous, I would want to know what happened. If they had an internal candidate, why did they not appoint them in the first place? Perhaps you were better at interview and their hand was forced in offering you the job, but then it would take at least one person in the appointing team to decide 'we need to get rid of this candidate, let's say that they breach our sickness policy', and then for HR (a completely separate team) to agree to go along with this. Perhaps I am someone who always sees the best in people, but my money is on a genuine human error. Which they should be looking into, and apologising for. This then needs to be communicated to the appointing CP, who you do not want to be someone who thinks that you have a poor sickness record, just in case you come across them in the future (CP is a small world).

I would also caution against this whole narrative about 'not wanting to work for that trust' etc (it's something that pops up in other discussions about similar things, not just here). I have worked in six different teams across the same trust over the past 3 years. There are some teams I would love to work in again, and some I would not. Overall, the trust does make a difference in how services operate (obvious statement ahoy), but this is not a blanket effect across services in the same trust. In a situation like this, where it sounds like a small number of individuals have either made a mistake or done something a bit dodgy, it's not really a 'trust' thing. In this scenario you may not want to apply to work for that team/service again, but to boycott a whole trust as an employer might be a bit excessive, and at the end of the day you'll be the only one who loses out on opportunities.

Also, lovely to reflect on what you've learned over the whole process, and look at the positives. Go get back on that bike!
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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby AryaStark » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:36 pm

Thank you everyone!
Yes I would still like to know what has happened but it seems like they have gone back to ignoring my emails now that they have given what they legally have to (the information requests). I sent an email explaining how I would rather they just be honest about the whole situation as I'm not in breach of anything. I have nothing against applying for positions within the same trust again as it is a large trust and I completely agree with ell - different departments run differently/ could be a more positive experience. My problem in applying to the same trust now is the fear that they will have to continue this 'lie' (for want of a better word that is not coming to my mind right now). For example; I apply to a different department (which I already have done so for a job), department might say yes, gets through to HR (which seems to be the same person every time) and they have to reject me or withdraw an offer as they've already stated that I don't meet their standards and can't go back on it.
I hope that makes sense, that's my current concern!
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby ell » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:46 pm

Good to hear you are applying for more things.

This sounds like you need to go higher up. To me, it sounds like someone made an error, and now is trying to ignore it hoping it will go away. I might be wrong of course. Is it worth finding out who the HR manager is and speaking to them over the phone? Do you know anyone else who works in that trust who could find out the name and number of the person? Be careful about making implications based on these various theories though. Just state the facts in a logical way.
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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby alexh » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:48 am

You really need advice from a lawyer. They will know who to speak to and the magic words to say.

"I'm a lawyer, from McDougall and McDougall, acting on behalf of Arya, who it appears you are trying to shaft."

Head of HR, division head and maybe CEO would be my guess.
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Re: Help Please, HR Nightmare

Postby AryaStark » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:28 pm

Just a little update for everyone!
Despite all the hurdles from this I'm now in an AP position (not the same trust I had these problems with!) and I'm really enjoying it. Hoping that everything's happened for a reason and keeping positive!
Strange how these things work out. Thank you again everyone for all of your advice/support on this thread. This really is a great community! :D
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
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