Your advice about my career - strange situation

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Lcet
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Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by Lcet » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:32 pm

Hi everyone,

I am doctor of clinical and health psychology (M.Sc) from Italy and a graduate member of the BPS.
According with the BPS policy I will become a Chartered psychologist in Jan 2019.

Can I work as a BPS clinical chartered psychologist legally in the UK or I need to apply to the HCPC?

In that situation now, Can I work legally in the UK as an assistant psychologist?

I have applied for my PhD via clearinghouse.

Thank you in advance, I am a little bit confuse.

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miriam
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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by miriam » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:09 pm

You need HCPC registration to work as a clinical psychologist, and the qualification here is a doctorate so even with HCPC recognition it may not be considered sufficient for some positions. As I understand it, at the moment European qualifications are recognised by the HCPC under a reciprocal arrangement, but stake your claim ASAP as this may change with Brexit (and I'm one of the people who strongly believes we should stake a claim for actual equivalence to UK qualifications being required to gain the right to practise here - including a doctoral level training that spans all the core client groups and a research thesis). So to get an NHS post you'll need the HCPC equivalence and a bit of luck. However, you may be able to get an interim job outside the NHS as a psychologist on the basis of the Italian qualification and BPS recognition, you just won't be able to use the term clinical psychologist as this is protected. You might also want to be careful of saying you are a "doctor of" if you neither have a medical qualification, nor a doctorate.

To get an AP post you'd need GBC from the BPS, which should be a formality if they've awarded chartered status.
Miriam

See my blog at http://clinpsyeye.wordpress.com

Lcet
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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by Lcet » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:25 pm

Thank you for your explanation.

Can I call myself psychologist in UK or only doctor of clinical psychology?

As a doctor of clinical and health psychology for what kind of job I can apply in UK?
I have also applied for a senior residental care worker.

The cost for the HPCP application is like 500£ non-refundable. The cost is high but it is ok. The problem is: should I apply as a clinical psychologist or psychologist with my master degree in clinical and health psychology?

What is the interim job?

What is the meaning of AP?


Thank you for your help
I appreciate it

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miriam
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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by miriam » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:05 am

You can call yourself a psychologist, but there are no NHS jobs with this title, so you'd have to work for a private company or as a self-employed therapist with that title. I consider it a shortfall of British legislation that this is the case, and that regulation of "psychologists" is not mandatory, only if you use one of the HCPC protected titles, like CP.

You said you have an MSc, so you can't call yourself a doctor of anything. It would breach advertising standards and trading standards laws, even though it doesn't breach professional regulations. Why do you call yourself a doctor of clinical and health psychology if you don't have a doctorate or medical training?

With the HCPC you need to apply for one of the protected titles, and you need to look at their criteria for each.

AP is assistant psychologist - the job you asked about in the AP.
Miriam

See my blog at http://clinpsyeye.wordpress.com

Lcet
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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by Lcet » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:33 am

According to my second degree I am a doctor.
In Italy I am doctor in clinical and healt psychology.
Everyone call me a doctor.

You said that I can do my private practice as a psychologist? Right?

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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by Lcet » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:51 am

I have attached a pic.
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miriam
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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by miriam » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:29 pm

It might be something in the translation. Here in the UK I would suggest you need a doctorate or medical training to use "doctor of" (although some dodgy professions like chiropractic like to claim they are doctors of and test the rules). A two year master's degree would not confer that.
Miriam

See my blog at http://clinpsyeye.wordpress.com

Lcet
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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by Lcet » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:13 pm

The BPS gave me my own italian title Dr. It means that they have regonized my 2 degrees.
There is not error about the traslation.

So... I could open my own psychological studio in the UK as a “psychologist”?
And I can provide the psychoterapy?

Are there some rules that claim what a psychologist (not HCPC) can do?

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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by AnnaJane » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:49 pm

Hi,

I think the problem is the difference in use between the title doctor in Italy and here in the UK. Having studied in Italy myself. As Miriam said, to use the title of doctor here you would need to have the equivalent of a PhD or other doctorate, I think that is equivalent to dottorato di ricerca in Italy. For example I have an undergraduate degree and a master's degree but would not be called doctor until completing further study. It could be, as mentioned previously, that you can get a statement of equivalence but I don't know much about it so probably best to talk to HCPC about it directly before you apply as they will know

You can definitely work as an assistant psychologist.

Hope that helps,

Anna

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miriam
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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by miriam » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:48 pm

Lcet wrote:The BPS gave me my own italian title Dr. It means that they have regonized my 2 degrees.
There is not error about the traslation.
I'd disagree. You can't call yourself doctor in the UK without a doctorate or a medical qualification, regardless of what it is called in Italy, or the fact the BPS have accepted that was the name of the qualification in Italy.
Lcet wrote:So... I could open my own psychological studio in the UK as a “psychologist”?
And I can provide the psychoterapy?
Yes. Though you'd be serving private clients (and neither those with health insurance nor the NHS, which each require qualifications and registrations you don't have) which means you might struggle to find a sufficient market. And we don't call it a studio.
Lcet wrote:Are there some rules that claim what a psychologist (not HCPC) can do?
No. It's a loophole in the current regulations that I hope they soon close.
Miriam

See my blog at http://clinpsyeye.wordpress.com

alexh
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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by alexh » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:32 am

Isn't the most sensible thing to do to apply for recognition via the reciprocal arrangements? That is using the European union (recognition of professional qualifications) regulations 2015, SI 2015/2059.

Maybe the European federation of psychologists http://www.efpa.eu or http://www.europsy-efpa.eu could help?

Maybe an Italian psychology colleague or network can help you identify someone else who has followed this route?

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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by Spatch » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:18 am

Are there some rules that claim what a psychologist (not HCPC) can do?
Without HCPC registration you would not be able to call yourself a Clinical Psychologist or Health Psychologist or any of the designated titles protected by law. It would be a criminal offence for a person use a designated title to which they are not entitled, imply or claim falsely that they have qualifications in a profession regulated by the HCPC.

( for more details see this fact sheet https://www.hcpc-uk.org/assets/document ... titles.pdf).

This wouldn't stop anyone being a "therapist" or "CBT practitioner", as these functions are not regulated, but there is a clause about "implication" which proclaiming yourself as a sort of practitioner psychologist may come under. So if you were to tell people/ include on your website/ advertising materials quotes like: "According to my second degree I am a doctor. In Italy I am doctor in clinical and healt psychology. Everyone call me a doctor." that may come under that.

Without HCPC registration it will severely limit your opportunities. BPS chartership, although helpful, isn't viewed in the same way.
Shameless plug alert:

Irrelevant Experience: The Secret Diary of an Assistant Psychologist is available at Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Irrelevant-Expe ... 00EQFE5JW/

Rubedo
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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by Rubedo » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:05 am

Hi Lcet, I'm Italian as well and been living and working in UK for almost 3 years so maybe I can help.

1) I wouldn't sing myself as doctor anywhere outside Italy. In France, Germany, UK and anywhere else in the world, you can call yourself a doctor if you either hold a doctorate (dottorato clinico, dottorato di ricerca, etc) or if you're a clinician (medico). In Italy you can claim the title of doctor; in other countries you can't unless you meet the above criteria.

2) As others mentioned, you can claim to be a psychologist - but then again in UK anyone can. In Italy the title of psychologist is protected, and as such we need to pass an exam to be able to use that title. Here in the UK the title of Psychologist is not protected, but other professional titles such as Clinical Psychologist, Health Psychologist, Occupational Psychologists are. To call yourself any of these without having adequate certifications is a criminal offence, much like calling yourself Psychologist in Italy without Esame di stato.

3) You could do "therapy" but are you trained enough? MSc in Italy are more academic-oriented and don't teach therapy and clinical skills proper. Not even after the 1 year internship you would have enough experience and know-how. While there's no law barring you do practice here as psychologist, I'd be wary of the risk of doing more harm than good to patients.

If I can give you an advice, go for the Assistant Psychologist/Research Assistant route and then try to apply for a Clinical Doctorate - if you got good BSc marks. Mind I got a low 2:2 (88) on my Bsc and a distinction (107) on my MSc, but because of my BSc marks I will not be accepted ever on a DClinPsy. Having a PhD or a taking an MRes here in the UK might change things on paper, but the reality is that if you screwed up when you were 18 (like I did), some 14 years later you'll still pay for it in this system (not-so-veiled critique).

Best of luck to you!

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Geishawife
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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by Geishawife » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:24 am

Rubedo wrote: Mind I got a low 2:2 (88) on my Bsc and a distinction (107) on my MSc, but because of my BSc marks I will not be accepted ever on a DClinPsy
This is not true. There are SOME courses that will not accept you, but others will look at your MSc and see that as "making up" for a poor undergrad and still others that use selection tests and will not consider your undergrad grade at all.

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maven
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Re: Your advice about my career - strange situation

Post by maven » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:16 pm

Indeed. Plenty of courses don't look at academic marks at all, beyond GBC, and use assessments for their selection process. Others consider an MSc/publication/PhD to compensate in showing academic ability. You just need to target your applications well, and look outside of London!
Maven.

Wise men talk because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something - Plato
The fool thinks himself to be wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool - Shakespeare

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