CRB Query

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CRB Query

Postby bw124 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:31 am

Hi all,
Sorry if this is posted elsewhere but I couldn't find it in any searches.

Does anyone know whether a fixed penalty for speeding (accidental I hasten to add!; resulting in 3 points on my licence and £60 fine in 2005) - an sp30, is subject to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (Exceptions Order) 1975? and hence should I declare this on applications?

I have had enhanced CRBs (and Disclosure Scotland) before and it has never come up, even when the points were still valid. I called Disclosure Scotland and was told they are "non-recordable" so would not be put on a PVG certificate.

So do they count as a spent criminal conviction? On my counterpart it gives a convicting court code, and date of offence, but the date of conviction has a line through it.

Obviously I don't want to put it down if I don't have to - it doesn't look great, and the prospect of something I did as a teenager haunting me for the rest of my life doesn't exactly fill me with joy. but I wouldn't want to be dishonest, and part of me thinks it is better for them to dismiss it rather than find out later and be subject to dismissal/disciplinary. I take it employers wouldn't be put off too much by this?!

Anyway any thoughts people have would be appreciated, and preferably links to a definitive reliable source.

Many thanks and kind regards, the rehabilitated ex-offender, bw124
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Re: CRB Query

Postby eponymous85 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:11 pm

Hi, I'm pretty confident speeding offences don't count for CRB's
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Re: CRB Query

Postby ell » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:27 pm

Also, I think the points only last for 4 years (?), so your driving license should now be clean. I too am pretty sure they don't count as 'criminal convictions'.

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Re: CRB Query

Postby Loula » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:44 pm

I had to do some research into this a while ago *cough* and fixed penalties definitely don't need to be declared- apparently it is something to do with not actually being a conviction because it wasn't done through a court process. And again I can vouch *more coughing* that mine didn't appear on CRBs either.

You will probably have to tell your employer though if you are planning on claiming travel expenses/ using your car for work, but that can be done at a later date. But in your case yours should have expired, I think they last for 3 years but you have to declare to your insurance for 5 years. You should look into sending your lisence off again and getting your points removed.
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Re: CRB Query

Postby Kal-El » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:13 pm

I agree with Loula. Technically speaking speeding is a motoring conviction and not necessarily a criminal conviction so for that reason it would not appear on your CRB. So on your form/application under criminal convictions I would just leave it clear. I think a lot of people have points on there licenses though. I too have recently been done for speeding but unfortunately I was very much in the wrong I have to admit. Although it was very early on a sunday morning (7am) and the roads were really clear :D. Unfortunately, this excuse did not sit well with the policeman .....I'll have to come up with something better next time 8)
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Re: CRB Query

Postby Ruthie » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:00 pm

Fixed penalties do not show up on a CRB check - I had points on my licence for a while and they have never shown up.

Some driving offences probably would count as criminal (e.g. drink driving or dangerous driving) and they would show up.
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Re: CRB Query

Postby Loula » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:32 pm

Ruthie wrote:Some driving offences probably would count as criminal (e.g. drink driving or dangerous driving) and they would show up.


Yeah when I researched it it appeared to be that those offences that ended up in court (so the examples you give, plus things like speeding where a fixed penalty isn't appropriate etc.) are 'convictions' and fixed penalties for speeding, red lights, using mobile phone aren't (unless you challenge them and they end up in the court...)
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Re: CRB Query

Postby Ruthie » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:22 pm

Loula wrote:You will probably have to tell your employer though if you are planning on claiming travel expenses/ using your car for work, but that can be done at a later date. But in your case yours should have expired, I think they last for 3 years but you have to declare to your insurance for 5 years. You should look into sending your lisence off again and getting your points removed.


I've never been asked about this btw. But also - I used to work in a community team where staff did a lot of driving to see clients and the local bobbies seemed intent on sitting outside where were worked in a little lay-by in at 30mph zone on a big straight road and catching us all the time. Someone got 2 sets in one week. So if the NHS banned drivers with points on their licence, I can assure you, none of my former colleagues would have jobs. (Although it can cost you your job if you loose your licence so be careful!)
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Re: CRB Query

Postby Loula » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:21 pm

Ruthie wrote:I've never been asked about this btw. But also - I used to work in a community team where staff did a lot of driving to see clients and the local bobbies seemed intent on sitting outside where were worked in a little lay-by in at 30mph zone on a big straight road and catching us all the time. Someone got 2 sets in one week. So if the NHS banned drivers with points on their licence, I can assure you, none of my former colleagues would have jobs. (Although it can cost you your job if you loose your licence so be careful!)


At my old place (a very small trust) we used to get a global email when they were camped outside, I'm pretty sure that isn't really allowed... It was actually on the way home from the interview for that AP job I got done! I think there would be hardly any drivers on the road if employers didn't allow you to have points, although I have seen AP posts advertised that require a clean license. I always wonder what happens if you then get points as it seems odd that you'd no longer meet the person spec.
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Re: CRB Query

Postby bw124 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:47 am

Morning all,
Sorry I thought I'd replied to this - anyway I just wanted to say thanks a lot for the support guys! That was kind of my thinking, but I just wanted to seek some 2nd opinions.

Loula wrote:Yeah when I researched it

May I ask, how exactly did you go about doing this? Did you see it in some guidance notes somewhere? I would just like to have something in writing justifying my position if at all possible. No worries if not.

Many thanks, bw124
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Re: CRB Query

Postby Loula » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:03 am

bw124 wrote:May I ask, how exactly did you go about doing this? Did you see it in some guidance notes somewhere? I would just like to have something in writing justifying my position if at all possible. No worries if not.


No, unfortunately it's not that clear, but I read around online and was pretty sure it would be ok, but I also emailed the HR dept of my new employer too so that they were aware and they said I didn't need to declare it.
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Re: CRB Query

Postby bw124 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:10 pm

Loula wrote: I also emailed the HR dept of my new employer too so that they were aware and they said I didn't need to declare it.

Great idea thanks, I'm sure that would cover things.
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Re: CRB Query

Postby bw124 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:32 pm

Hi all,
So I thought I would just give an update in case anyone finds themselves in a similar situation.

I emailed a HR officer of the health board I am applying to (its in Scotland btw so the guidelines may be different in England), outlining my situation. She spoke to someone in the department who "authorises the PVG forms", and said if you declare something and the PVG don't put it on your certificate then fair enough, but if you don't declare something which does come up, then "questions would be asked" (i.e. dismissal/disciplinary).

But as i said before
bw124 wrote: I called Disclosure Scotland and was told they are "non-recordable" so would not be put on a PVG certificate.


She also reminded me that the recruiting manager wouldn't see that part of the form until after shortlisting for interview.
So I couldn't exactly get a straight answer but she implied that I would be safer (and it wouldn't really affect me negatively) to cover myself and declare it, which I think I will do for this application.

For future jobs, I plan to email ahead and see what that specific health boards says.

Groan, bw124
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