The speakmans

Anything that does not fit into the above categories, but is related to psychology, including discussion of public and media perceptions of psychology, satire related to psychology, etc.
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BenJMan
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Re: The speakmans

Post by BenJMan » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:55 pm

Whilst i'm loathe to give them more viewers, it was vaguely valuable in an enlightening sense about what utter codswallop is out there. I believe it is online on the ITV Player.
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Campion
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Re: The speakmans

Post by Campion » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:08 pm

sarahg wrote:
maven wrote:
JamesFManc wrote:Well they seem to work

But they have had too much plastic surgery
Their physical appearance is unrelated to whether or not they are effective therapists, and is not appropriate to belittle. Whether I'm a good CP or not doesn't relate to my hairstyle or gender or attractiveness, and I'd find it most objectionable if people made judgements about those things in order to undermine my professional standing. The lack of evidence that they offer anything effective, and their huge self-publicising machine is what is appropriate to challenge.
I think James' comment was purely made in a light-hearted manner.. No need to take it out of context. Mountain-molehill comes to mind!
You think it was made in a light hearted manner? So you're not sure? What context is it being taken out of then?

In my personal view it is wholly irrelevant whether or not the point was made in jest; the point was made bluntly and it had little; if any; context in the initial missive (hence the confusion). This forum is designed for professionals and though you can have a laugh here, a joke in which a judgement is made about someone else's appearance grates a little on me (not least because it's a logical fallacy in relation to the argument). It grates especially hard on me given the career path that you guys are on. For some reason I just expect more (and I admit that maybe I expect too much).

A good rule of thumb in my opinion is that if you wouldn't make the joke in any other professional setting, you shouldn't really make it here. If I heard someone I was going to for a health related issue make a joke about the amount of plastic surgery someone else had then I would be very unlikely to share anything with them for fear that they might mock me to others about whatever issues I shared with them.

That's just my two cents though. I'm sure you know more about what is appropriate in a professional setting in your industry than I do.



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Re: The speakmans

Post by sarahg » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:41 pm

Campion wrote:
You think it was made in a light hearted manner? So you're not sure? What context is it being taken out of then?

In my personal view it is wholly irrelevant whether or not the point was made in jest; the point was made bluntly and it had little; if any; context in the initial missive (hence the confusion). This forum is designed for professionals and though you can have a laugh here, a joke in which a judgement is made about someone else's appearance grates a little on me (not least because it's a logical fallacy in relation to the argument). It grates especially hard on me given the career path that you guys are on. For some reason I just expect more (and I admit that maybe I expect too much).

A good rule of thumb in my opinion is that if you wouldn't make the joke in any other professional setting, you shouldn't really make it here. If I heard someone I was going to for a health related issue make a joke about the amount of plastic surgery someone else had then I would be very unlikely to share anything with them for fear that they might mock me to others about whatever issues I shared with them.

That's just my two cents though. I'm sure you know more about what is appropriate in a professional setting in your industry than I do.



Campion.
And that herein demonstrates an issue with this forum, sometimes. Open-access forums are not analogous to professional settings. I do believe however that online forums provide a great platform for discussion, and the opportunity to draw opinions from a wide-range of people and backgrounds.

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Re: The speakmans

Post by Gilly » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:47 pm

without wanting to sidetrack the conversation into a different debate, I think the difficulty to keep in mind with this forum is that it is ultimately a professionals forum (for aspiring and qualified clinical psychologists), the owner of which who is identifiable as a member of the profession and has ultimate responsibility for the content that is posted and kept within it, without being too strict and rigid in what we discuss here - its a fine balance which we try to work with.

We have to remember that discussion is always welcome and (despite what some people think) we really do encourage open conversation and debate, but we have other considerations floating around in the background that do not nescessarily influence other forums :)
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Re: The speakmans

Post by Campion » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:17 pm

sarahg wrote:And that herein demonstrates an issue with this forum, sometimes. Open-access forums are not analogous to professional settings. I do believe however that online forums provide a great platform for discussion, and the opportunity to draw opinions from a wide-range of people and backgrounds.
In my view a medium can't determine anything, so I'm unlikely to agree to that...

Ignoring my own beliefs entirely though; this isn't an open access forum. With only three notable exceptions, everyone here is expected to be on a particular career path; it therefore doesn't meet the criteria to be defined as 'open-access'. That career path contains a number of expectations of professional behaviour, and those expectations are mirrored here; I'm not so sure why that is an issue. In my opinion it would be more of an issue for the forum and all of its users if it created the illusion that professionalism was unimportant.

Again, just my two cents.




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Re: The speakmans

Post by lingua_franca » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:33 pm

Campion wrote: In my personal view it is wholly irrelevant whether or not the point was made in jest; the point was made bluntly and it had little; if any; context in the initial missive (hence the confusion). This forum is designed for professionals and though you can have a laugh here, a joke in which a judgement is made about someone else's appearance grates a little on me (not least because it's a logical fallacy in relation to the argument). It grates especially hard on me given the career path that you guys are on. For some reason I just expect more (and I admit that maybe I expect too much).

A good rule of thumb in my opinion is that if you wouldn't make the joke in any other professional setting, you shouldn't really make it here. If I heard someone I was going to for a health related issue make a joke about the amount of plastic surgery someone else had then I would be very unlikely to share anything with them for fear that they might mock me to others about whatever issues I shared with them.

That's just my two cents though. I'm sure you know more about what is appropriate in a professional setting in your industry than I do.

Campion.
In fairness, these guys are celebrities of a particular reality-TVish type, and obsessive commentary on physical appearance is a feature of the tabloid press that helps them to make their money. They're aware of it and they play up to it through how they dress and present themselves. I myself can't imagine turning up to work in the NHS wearing a micro-length cocktail dress, but judging by the press photos of therapy sessions this seems to be a typical working ensemble for Eva Speakman - she is dressing not for work, but for a part, and she knows that. I doubt a patient would feel threatened or judged if they saw an aspiring psych on a forum making such a flippant remark in that context. Whether it's in good taste or not is another issue, but I doubt it would be seen as threatening.
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BenJMan
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Re: The speakmans

Post by BenJMan » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:42 pm

lingua_franca wrote: I myself can't imagine turning up to work in the NHS wearing a micro-length cocktail dress
I could totally pull that off.
I think a hero is any person really intent on making this a better place for all people ~ Maya Angelou.

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Campion
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Re: The speakmans

Post by Campion » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:03 pm

lingua_franca wrote:In fairness, these guys are celebrities of a particular reality-TVish type, and obsessive commentary on physical appearance is a feature of the tabloid press that helps them to make their money. They're aware of it and they play up to it through how they dress and present themselves. I myself can't imagine turning up to work in the NHS wearing a micro-length cocktail dress, but judging by the press photos of therapy sessions this seems to be a typical working ensemble for Eva Speakman - she is dressing not for work, but for a part, and she knows that. I doubt a patient would feel threatened or judged if they saw an aspiring psych on a forum making such a flippant remark in that context. Whether it's in good taste or not is another issue, but I doubt it would be seen as threatening.
Your argument is flawed; the Speakmans don't have professional standards to maintain, so presentation on any medium is a matter for them alone, the users of this forum by and large do, and the owner of the site certainly does, so they and the forum have no basis for equivalency.

If I heard anyone involved in my health making pronouncements such as was made on others in a place were it can be assumed the writer has a professional capacity, I would be very wary of that professional, or any associated with them. I admit, that could just be me though.

You shouldn't really seek to deal with people by sinking to their level. In my opinion that never ends well.



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'Think how many blameless lives are brightened by the blazing indiscretions of other people.' - Saki.

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Re: The speakmans

Post by Psychological » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:26 pm

It seems like JamesFManc is still doing a good job of being provocative and getting a reaction from people ("clin psychologists never really help people they just manage a person's decline" and "I just want the title of doctor" for example). One could even say the comments are a bit troll like, but they can spark interesting conversations I guess.


Going back to the original topic, did anyone apart from Ben actually see any of the episodes? It seemed a lot of the comments were made based on the article rather than watching the show but I could be wrong. I'm not saying the show was /is good but some of the points in the article e.g. of the patient being accused of being a fraud - in the article it came across to be a bit harsh but on the show it was said in a jokingly way. I think some of the things they said and did in the show were things we may use in our roles, but I failed to see how they managed the 'miraculous' recovery at the end!

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Re: The speakmans

Post by Randomswirls » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:16 pm

Randomswirls wrote:I saw it and thought if only real life therapy could have such a quick impact!!!!

I didn't really get what they did to treat her other than to show her a box of photos and tell her she was a fraud for not having a panic attack! Very bizarre
That was my thoughts on the first one I haven't seen the others but it's on for the next few weeks.

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Re: The speakmans

Post by ell » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:44 pm

Yeah, it seems everyone pretty much agrees that 'psychological therapy' being carried out by people with little to no training, and no regulation, is worrying at best.

It's an interesting point to be made though - "if it works...". Does that mean that if something works then it is ok to be provided by people with no training/regulation? Might be an interesting point for discussion.

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BenJMan
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Re: The speakmans

Post by BenJMan » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:17 pm

Or indeed "If it works" , is it ok to do it? Do the ends justify the means in therapy? Even if provided by someone with adequate credentials?
I think a hero is any person really intent on making this a better place for all people ~ Maya Angelou.

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Will
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Re: The speakmans

Post by Will » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:10 am

http://m.pps.sagepub.com/content/9/4/355.abstract

I was reading this yesterday, perhaps relevant in thinking about how we judge the effectiveness of therapies.
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Re: The speakmans

Post by BlueCat » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:30 pm

sarahg wrote:Open-access forums are not analogous to professional settings. I do believe however that online forums provide a great platform for discussion, and the opportunity to draw opinions from a wide-range of people and backgrounds.
Maybe this is where some of the confusion and conflict sometimes lies? This isn't an open access forum. This is very specifically a forum for a very circumscribed set of people. There are rules about who can join and there are rules for professional conduct within posts.
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Re: The speakmans

Post by markpowlett » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:35 am

I hope that no one will mind if I comment on the Speakmans in a way that does not discuss their appearance!

What I find interesting is that they seem to be creating a mystique around their work. They are not eager for people to see what they actually do other than having a group family session (which they do on every episode) This doesn't create much hope for those who are alone or do not have support from their family and I have seen comment about this on social media from those who feel they cannot be helped unless they have other people to appear on Television with them.

They appear to use a combination of techniques, I have seen them use timeline therapy (in a delorean!) and what seems to be a version of EMDR that they have changed. I wonder if this is so they can sell their own training as they have "created" this therapy of their own.

Having said that it clearly is advantageous for people to be aware that they can seek help and can change if they wish.

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