PWP Training Now available without a degree

This section is for discussion relating to the Layard report, and subsequent schemes like Improving Access to Psychological Therapies where lower intensity inteventions are offered in primary care
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Esuma
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PWP Training Now available without a degree

Post by Esuma » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:04 pm

Stumbled across an advert today for a 'PWP Trainee - non-graduate'

http://www.jobs.nhs.uk/xi/vacancy/?vac_ ... ign=Indeed

I hadn't seen anything previously about this and was wondering what everyone thought of the expansion of PWP training to non-graduates?

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Highintensity
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Re: PWP Training Now available without a degree

Post by Highintensity » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:27 pm

I think it's an excellent idea but it comes with pro's and con's - although I do feel the pro's outweigh the con's in the long term for IAPT - you will always need a mixture of graduates and non-grads. I am going to be making some big assumptions based on my own experience as an ex-PWP, however I have worked in many IAPT services over the past 7 years and one of the things i've noticed across most services is that non-graduates tend to stay as PWP's - probably for a variety of reasons (happy staying at band 5 as this is the same banding for newly qualified core professions like nurses, OTs etc). I am sure if there are any non-grads reading they will be able to give a better insight, but what I have found is that non-grads tend to usually be a lot older and may not have as much academic qualifications (or not as high such as degrees etc) but they make up for it with a vast experience of working in the mental health field and the wisdom of life in general. Every PWP I trained with is a HIT just like me now, which I think is understandable after 7 years in IAPT, however I remember in my training year, every single PWP did not want to stay as a PWP (a big assumption) but I think the reality is that most 21 year olds don't see band 5 as the end point of their career but more as a stepping stone - and this has been at the expense of IAPT which has created a system with a workforce it probably knows will not stay - especially if they are such young graduates - we all know being a PWP is a very demanding job, infact as a HIT i do not deal with no way near as much risk or safeguarding as I did when I was a PWP (because a large part of my job was just assessment and triages).

Anyway, I am digressing from the point but I sometimes wonder why IAPT trains up a workforce which it knows will not stay in the position - is it because it thinks it has gaurenteed funding or something? and so it can just keep training PWPs? I'd be interested in knowing how many people have PWP qualifications and how many actually are still PWPs and have not gone on to do other things - because of lack of career progression/development etc. I think IAPT needs to start looking at trends on what factors keep PWPs (age being a big one) if they hope to sustain their stepped care model in the long term as we all know the turn-over rate is horrendous.

I am going to go into stereotype overload now - but I feel graduate PWPs are much sharper and educated and usually have more confidence (and don't really buy into the long-term IAPT philosophy but are more focused on using it for their own personal goals rather than being committed to IAPT), whereas non-graduates my lack in confidence and not want to leave something they are probably a lot more grateful for - again huge assumptions but I am just saying it bluntly.

deadwing
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Re: PWP Training Now available without a degree

Post by deadwing » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:05 pm

I'm surprised to see 'more life experience' stated as being preferable in the advert, strikes me as a little vague and judgmental. If they meant specifically having had past experience of struggling with mental health issues that would be one thing. But how do you measure life experience? And of what kind?

It strikes me as being potentially a way to get around being outright ageist: 'more life experience' is likely to be something older applicants meet more frequently than younger ones, in their view. This is concerning.

Other than this aspect, I am surprised to see they're willing to take on non grad PWPs. I thought the whole point of graduates training as PWPs was to ensure they had a broad knowledge base in psychology or a relevant profession already. I'm not confident that taking on someone without any prior relevant qualifications is going to be the best thing for patients. There is so much more to being a PWP than the specific interventions taught on the course.

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baa
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Re: PWP Training Now available without a degree

Post by baa » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:14 am

This 'track' in pwp training has been available for at least three years, if not longer. If you don't have a degree, then you have to complete a portfolio that shows that you are able to study/think at a certain level (I have a horrible cold, my vocabulary has decreased substantially). I think someone who I trained with may have had to do this (I trained in 08), but definitely know someone who trained approx 3 or 4 years ago who did not have a degree.
Last edited by baa on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
At least I'm not as mad as that one!

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baa
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Re: PWP Training Now available without a degree

Post by baa » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:17 am

deadwing wrote: I thought the whole point of graduates training as PWPs was to ensure they had a broad knowledge base in psychology or a relevant profession already. I'm not confident that taking on someone without any prior relevant qualifications is going to be the best thing for patients. There is so much more to being a PWP than the specific interventions taught on the course.
Nope, any degree will do (some may be seen as more desirable), it's more about being able to study at a certain level.
At least I'm not as mad as that one!

nomnom
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Re: PWP Training Now available without a degree

Post by nomnom » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:40 am

This is not a new route - it has been available for a few years now depending on which university you are looking at.

I worked in a service where people did get on to the training without a degree - I must say I did question this and them ask a PWP as there is so much to the role than delivering the interventions. Also, the pass mark for those without a degree is lower than those with which again is questionable for many reasons.

Like with anything, there are pros and cons. I think the criteria should be universal rather than area/university/service dependent.
'Forget what hurt you. But remember what it taught you'

LIWY
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Re: PWP Training Now available without a degree

Post by LIWY » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:52 pm

PWPs were never envisaged to be psyc grads using the post as a stepping stone. I remember reading early interviews where David Clark envisaged that they would be people from the local community with diverse backgrounds - "such as hairdressers or taxi drivers". This was all before the true logistics of IAPT had been thought out of course and we see PWPs doing so much more than what the initial role was envisaged as.

Fact is though, if you do want a more diverse population among PWPs and to stop throwing so much money away on trainings for a role that only a small minority stay in, you do need to consider a change in what has become the status quo. Let's remember that degrees were far less common in the past before the Blair government or that people may have come from countries where degree level education was not accessible as it is here via the student loans system.

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