Monitoring diversity of applications

Discuss applications to the clearing house (and to courses that are not in the clearing house system), screening assessments, interviews, reserve lists, places, etc. here
jadeywadey
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:33 pm

Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by jadeywadey » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:07 pm

Hi everyone

I'm a trainee at herts and we are looking to monitor the diversity of applicants' backgrounds to the doctorate more inclusively than we feel the clearing house does. I was wondering if anyone could forward me the diversity monitoring form Salomon's uses for their interviews or any other courses you know of. Alternatively, what aspects of applicants' backgrounds do you feel should be monitored that is not covered in the clearing house form?

Many Thanks!

Advertisement
Pearson Clinical Assessment publishes a wide range of assessments to support psychology professionals including the Gold Standard Wechsler range. To view our range please visit: pearsonclinical.co.uk/cpf
jadeywadey
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by jadeywadey » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:31 pm

Hi
I haven't got access to this year's clinical psychology application form, but was wondering if the diversity monitoring part of it changed at all from the previous year. Does the form monitor anything apart from the following: gender, age, marital status, dependants, residence, disability and ethnicity?
Is there anything you feel should be monitored that isn't such as social class or religious beliefs?

Thanks

Katy1835
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by Katy1835 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:24 pm

Hi Jade,

the current form asks about:
age, country of residence, gender, marital status, dependants, sexual orientation, ethnic group, disability, religion.
I don't know if it's changed much from last year as I didn't apply... I think the list is pretty comprehensive though.
To be honest I'm not sure if I would be comfortable putting things like my social class etc on the form. I am definately all for diversity, and monitoring the diversity so we can try to encourage people from different backgrounds to venture into clinical psychology, (really enjoyed the diversity debate on here a while ago) but I sometimes feel like we're asked to provide an awful lot of information about ourselves without always knowing where it goes and who is viewing it. I wouldn't want to feel like my social class was something that I was being judged on (although I know that this will just be used for monitoring and not part of the short-listing process, as I said before we don't know who is looking at that information). I'd like to think that we're all viewed on our merits and not our background. Although at least the clearing house form lets you to opt out.

By the way, I'm hoping to get into Herts this year and am keen to hear current trainees views on the social constructionist/constructivist approch of the course and how it works on placements. I have posted a topic in the clinical courses part of the forum and would love to hear your views. (i don't know how to make a link :? )

User avatar
matt.berlin
Posts: 653
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:06 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by matt.berlin » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:55 pm

These are the equal opps questions as asked on this year's form:

What is your age?
  • 20-24
  • 25-29
  • 30-34
  • 35-39
  • 40-44
  • 45-49
  • 50-54
  • 55 and over
  • Prefer not to say
What is your country of permanent residence?
  • UK
  • Other European Union/European Economic Area
  • Other
  • Prefer not to say
What is your gender?
  • Female
  • Male
  • Prefer not to say
What is your marital status?
  • Divorced or separated
  • Married/civil partnership/cohabiting
  • Single
  • Widowed
  • Prefer not to say
Do you have any dependants?
  • No
  • Yes
  • Prefer not to say
What is your sexual orientation?
  • Bisexual
  • Gay man
  • Gay woman/lesbian
  • Heterosexual/straight
  • Other sexual orientation
  • Prefer not to say
What is your ethnic group?
  • Asian, Asian British, Asian English, Asian Scottish or Asian Welsh
  • Black, Black British, Black English, Black Scottish or Black Welsh
  • Mixed
  • White
  • Other ethnic background
  • Prefer not to say
Please specify
(NB: these were asked if you selected White, don't know what happened if you selected something else)
  • British - English
  • British - Scottish
  • British - Welsh
  • Any other British (white) Background
  • Irish
  • Any other White background
Do you have a disability?
  • No
  • Yes
  • Prefer not to say
If you answered YES above, please give details.
  • Blind/partially sighted
  • Deaf/hearing impairment
  • Dyslexia
  • Mental health difficulties
  • Personal care support
  • Unseen disability eg diabetes, epilepsy, asthma
  • Wheelchair user/mobility difficulties
  • 2 or more of the above disabilities/special needs
  • Other disability/special need
Do you have a religion or similar belief?
  • No
  • Yes
  • Prefer not to say
If you answered YES above, please give details.
  • Baha'i
  • Buddhist
  • Christian - Protestant
  • Christian - Roman Catholic
  • Christian - Other
  • Hindu
  • Jain
  • Jewish
  • Muslim
  • Sikh
  • Other religion or similar belief
Ordnung ist das halbe Leben ... aber die andere Hälfte ist viel schöner!

jadeywadey
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by jadeywadey » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:40 pm

Thanks for responses

At the moment I'm interested in the fact that the clearing house does not measure any aspect of 'social class' in the diversity monitoring forms. I know some of the discussions on diversity queried the impact of socio-economic disadvantage on application to CP but as this isn't monitored we don't really know if CP and trainees represent the clients they serve in respect of this.
I'm personally for monitoring this but I wondered what you all thought the best way of monitoring this would be. I had a few ideas (and would welcome others)

Self defined (saying if you think you're working class, middle class- but very subjective)
Stating parental occupations
Whether the first in family to go to university (not including siblings- I think it's used in looking at ungrad access)
Provide a scale- of 6/8 groups of classes (e.g. manual skilled, etc) and rating parents occupations based on this.
Income of parents (might not know this though)
Whether you were eligible for free school meals as a child (might not apply to people of a certain age? or those outside the UK)
Whether eligible/ had EMA or subsided/ paid tuition fees
Whether parents had cars or owned own homes

Jade

Panda
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:00 am

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by Panda » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:14 pm

There's no mention of Gender Identity there......despite it being a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.

Mesopotamia
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:38 pm

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by Mesopotamia » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:24 pm

jadeywadey wrote: Whether parents had cars or owned own homes
Jade
Although I don't have any suggestions apart from the ones you already have mentioned, I think the above suggestion does not necessarily indicate what social background a candidate belongs to. I don't have the statistics, but I believe that most people who 'own' a house do not in fact own it. They continue to be in debt to a bank or a similar institution. Unfortunately society is increasingly moving towards the trend of surviving on credit. Even people who think they 'own' a car, are often in debt as they either lease it, or are in the seemingly never ending process of repaying the loan.

Now when I think about it, asking someone about how much loan they have might be a good indicator of their social background. Asking for such information might however be perceived as intrusive.

As I said I don't have any statistics on the claims I am making, but it may be worth looking into the housing statistics at least.

User avatar
Spatch
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: The other side of paradise
Contact:

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by Spatch » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:15 am

At the moment I'm interested in the fact that the clearing house does not measure any aspect of 'social class' in the diversity monitoring forms. I know some of the discussions on diversity queried the impact of socio-economic disadvantage on application to CP but as this isn't monitored we don't really know if CP and trainees represent the clients they serve in respect of this.
I think social class is always going to be a thorny issue to categorise because it encompasses a range of possible factors including, but not limited to, occupation, education, parental status, home ownership, spousal status and income. Also self report may differ wildly from externally observed characteristics.

There more official methods have been things like the NRS social grade or NS-SEC(based on the type of job the head of the household has), but are hugely reductionistic and blunt. Theoretical models have ranged from the very broad models by Marx (focussing on proletariat, bourgoise, captial classes) and Weber (influence of Power, status, money), to the more specific nuanced models of theorists like Paul Fussell and Richard Hoggart.

For CPs there is also the added complication of social mobility. Many would argue once you become a CP you may actually leave a social class of origin and join the middle class automatically. Others have argued the opposite (that you define your own class, or that you remain in the class you are born in).

Its also possible to see it as a gradual process, for example someone from a working class background goes to university and adopts aspects of lower middle class culture, and these are consolidated when they get a graduate job and they join the upper middle classes. None of these conflicting models are wrong, and all have their uses.

Ultimately I think it will depend on what questions you are asking, and what specific aspects of class you are wanting to home in on.

User avatar
workingmama
Team Member
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:54 pm
Location: UK

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by workingmama » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:13 pm

Panda wrote:There's no mention of Gender Identity there......despite it being a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.
That's the omission that struck me at first look, but I'll have a good think!
Fail, fail again, fail better.

User avatar
matt.berlin
Posts: 653
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:06 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by matt.berlin » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:22 pm

workingmama wrote:
Panda wrote:There's no mention of Gender Identity there......despite it being a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.
That's the omission that struck me at first look, but I'll have a good think!
Assuming that the numbers of people who would identify as something like "trans" (before we get into what terms might be used) would be small, one issue may be how the stats are reported. One problem is the identifiability of individuals from the statistics. Another might be what could be usefully said if there are few applicants in this category, it would be hard to base any inferences on data for a small sample size. And I won't even go into the issues around the pros and cons of category versus continuum models. :)

Just to be clear: I'm not suggesting the question should not be asked, just there are issues to consider.

My own question though is, why have equal opps numbers for the 2011 entry still not been published? On the Clearing House website it continues to state this message (which has been up since last year):
We usually publish draft equal opportunities data in September and then provide finalised data in late October after all the courses have started. Due to staff shortages earlier in the year we have been unable to prepare the data for the 2011 entry by the normal publication date. We will publish this as soon as we are able which will hopefully be during the autumn.
Ordnung ist das halbe Leben ... aber die andere Hälfte ist viel schöner!

User avatar
workingmama
Team Member
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:54 pm
Location: UK

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by workingmama » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:41 pm

matt.berlin wrote: One problem is the identifiability of individuals from the statistics.
I'm being a bit of a twonk here, but I thought they separated out the equality bit of my application from my general application anyway? I think it would possibly be more of an issue if the form was looking at, say, number of self-identified trans people by each course centre, but if the info is separated from the general application bumph, I'm not sure how that would be an issue? The Scottish Transgender Alliance have a nice pamphlet on monitoring, and they advise to not monitor if the info is identifiable, but I'm not sure it would be in this case (but I really don't know what they do with the forms - eat them? Paper aeroplane races with the 2011 ones? :lol: )

I think that you're right about numbers being small, but I think that the numbers of, say, Ba'hi applicants would be fairly small too (although now I've Wikipedia'd, I see that whilst small, is the fastest growing faith group - albeit not in Britain - who knew?). Perhaps the issue is not about finding that great numbers of applicants identify as trans, which of course you're quite right about, but I'd welcome the question on the form just being there to acknowledge that that is some people's gender identity. Even if the form had 'male, including trans males; female, including trans females', it'd be a more inclusive reflection than the current form. I know that still excludes the really small percentages of people who identify as none of those terms, and it wouldn't disaggregate the figures to tell us anything, so it's not a total resolution, but it'd make me feel all warm and happy to see it there. I know that the language issue is never fully comfortable for all members of any one group, but it's maybe just a wee step closer.

Now, time to go outside and wave like a wavy-thing at the Olympic torch!
Fail, fail again, fail better.

jadeywadey
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by jadeywadey » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:10 pm

I get your point workingmama. I'd like some aspect of social class or socio-economic background (in terms of opportunities) on the forms as an indication that they are interested in the issue.

User avatar
Borrowed Cone
Posts: 1269
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:05 pm
Location: M25

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by Borrowed Cone » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:53 pm

Is it just me or is this all sounding hideously invasive. I don't really want to tell anyone how many cars my parents have, where they grew up, what jobs they do, or what food they buy their dog.

I'm all for monitoring for equality; but there are limits to the information I am willing to provide about other people I am related to, or even personal historical information. Not necessarily because I feel it would hinder an application I was making, but simply because it is no one else's business.

This drive for ultra-monitoring rather strikes me as some kind of psychotic defence enacted by those with some sort of communist agenda.

The Cone
"We can rebuild him. We have the technology. But I don't want to spend a lot of money..."

User avatar
workingmama
Team Member
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:54 pm
Location: UK

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by workingmama » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:59 am

Borrowed Cone wrote:Is it just me or is this all sounding hideously invasive. I don't really want to tell anyone how many cars my parents have, where they grew up, what jobs they do, or what food they buy their dog....This drive for ultra-monitoring rather strikes me as some kind of psychotic defence enacted by those with some sort of communist agenda.
The Cone
A blue one and a white one (cars, but I don't know what kind), both from poor-ish areas with 'aspirational' mammies, and they both hate pets (which is why my siblings and I have half a zoo between us - we were emotionally deprived of hamsters! :lol: )

I was trying to think of a good response to the communist agenda point, but seeing as I'm pretty socialist, I probably don't have too much of a leg to stand on! :P
Fail, fail again, fail better.

User avatar
Gilly
Moderator
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Doodling on Paint somewhere...

Re: Monitoring diversity of applications

Post by Gilly » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:46 am

workingmama wrote:
Borrowed Cone wrote:Is it just me or is this all sounding hideously invasive. I don't really want to tell anyone how many cars my parents have, where they grew up, what jobs they do, or what food they buy their dog....This drive for ultra-monitoring rather strikes me as some kind of psychotic defence enacted by those with some sort of communist agenda.
The Cone
A blue one and a white one (cars, but I don't know what kind), both from poor-ish areas with 'aspirational' mammies, and they both hate pets (which is why my siblings and I have half a zoo between us - we were emotionally deprived of hamsters! :lol: )

I was trying to think of a good response to the communist agenda point, but seeing as I'm pretty socialist, I probably don't have too much of a leg to stand on! :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk69e1Vcmvg
You're not calling for help, are you?! ;)

"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity" - Abraham Lincoln.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Daisy10, suuzee and 34 guests