MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

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jakejames1990
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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by jakejames1990 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:22 pm

enid wrote:
jakejames1990 wrote:However I have always been put off because I really dislike research and stats.
This is not so good though, as the CP doctorate has an enormous research component - the project is bigger than an MSc thesis (though not quite as big as a PhD) but the thesis is a big part of the final year. Have you ever considered IAPT as a way of training to work clinically? As obviously that training is entirely case/clinical based. You will have to do research and stats on the doctorate and some course centres are really heavy on the research side of things. Any good MSc will have a heavy research/stats component, and this is the bit of it that is appealing to CP doctoral courses I think. If you don't like research I wouldn't do a masters.
Thanks for the advice - I do realise that stats/research would be my downfall to some extent which is quite annoying since I am currently working well as a clinician and research has never interested me. It's a shame chartership can't be obtained through a purely clinical basis really.

Regarding IAPT, The University Plymouth no longer offers the Low Intensity (PWP) training courses and there is also a lack of jobs within IAPT following successful completion of the training. I am also of the opinion that the High Intensity IAPT positions are solely for those already holding doctorates in clinical psychology so that, too, isn't a possibility... decisions, decisions.

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Loula
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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by Loula » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:24 am

I've just read the whole thread and I'm interested in what motivates you to want to be a CP? You seem very focussed on staying within substance abuse (and your current role), and the research side of CP training doesn't appeal to you (which as a third year trainee I can vouch is probably the most draining part of the course as it can become life-consuming, so if you're not interested in it it can be pretty miserable). Have you tried to get an AP post? Although there are other options out there (such as your current role, PWP, RA etc), CP supervision is such a helpful thing to have experienced, and also it might give you more of an idea of whether CP is the right path for you?

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Elly88
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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by Elly88 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:16 am

jakejames1990 wrote:
enid wrote:
jakejames1990 wrote:However I have always been put off because I really dislike research and stats.
This is not so good though, as the CP doctorate has an enormous research component - the project is bigger than an MSc thesis (though not quite as big as a PhD) but the thesis is a big part of the final year. Have you ever considered IAPT as a way of training to work clinically? As obviously that training is entirely case/clinical based. You will have to do research and stats on the doctorate and some course centres are really heavy on the research side of things. Any good MSc will have a heavy research/stats component, and this is the bit of it that is appealing to CP doctoral courses I think. If you don't like research I wouldn't do a masters.
Thanks for the advice - I do realise that stats/research would be my downfall to some extent which is quite annoying since I am currently working well as a clinician and research has never interested me. It's a shame chartership can't be obtained through a purely clinical basis really.

Regarding IAPT, The University Plymouth no longer offers the Low Intensity (PWP) training courses and there is also a lack of jobs within IAPT following successful completion of the training. I am also of the opinion that the High Intensity IAPT positions are solely for those already holding doctorates in clinical psychology so that, too, isn't a possibility... decisions, decisions.
I have worked in IAPT for a couple of years now, I have worked with many High Intensity Therapists from different services who come from varied backgrounds (e.g. occupational therapy, social work, nursing) and many were Psychological Wellbeing Practitioners before getting onto High Intensity training.

In my experience, High Intensity training is not solely for qualified Clinical Psychologists. In fact, in my current service many Clinical Psychologists work at Step 3 using CBT but none of them did High Intensity training. I think that you have to have a certain amount of clinical hours using CBT interventions and of course be BABCP accredited, but it is possible to work as a Clinical Psychologist in IAPT using CBT without having done High Intensity training.

I think a large part of Clinical training as well as being a qualified Clinical Psychologist can involve research and also consultancy/management type elements. If it is more therapy you are interested in, perhaps it is worth considering other more therapy-based roles?

Eriya
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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by Eriya » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:10 pm

I thought I could maybe get some opinions too? I'm still waiting to hear from two unis regarding interviews for clinical training but I don't have much hope that it's going to be a success. I have been recently thinking about what to do next and have stumbled upon msc psychological therapy in primary care at Dundee university. It sounds like a good next step as it's got a research component as well as a clinical component. It could also be a plan b or c although I've not seen many jobs advertised for CAAPs. I'm also going to try to apply for AP or RA jobs but, again, there's not many in my area. I was wondering what people thought of that course and if maybe anyone actually did it and then successfully applied for clinical psychology?

jakejames1990
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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by jakejames1990 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:10 pm

I have always wanted to pursue a career within Clinical Psychology since before I started my undergraduate degree at 18. Of course, 90%+ of undergraduate Psychology students are of the same mindset when they initially begin their degrees because of the popularity of such a job - either due to the media, prospect of a good wage or otherwise. However whereas most seem to choose other, more appropriate roles to them as they graduate (social work, management, etc) I have remained fascinated by CP.

I have worked as an assistant for a chartered Forensic CP in Exeter during my degree which was really useful for increasing my knowledge of the work that is conducted both within an NHS and private sector perspective. I also currently work alongside NHS CP's and CPN's which has also been helpful. My passion currently lies within substance misuse because it is probably the best postgraduate job I have been able to obtain since my BSc. I have also been promoted once since starting approximately 15 months ago. Although substance misuse is the primary area of my work, I also work heavily within a Complex Needs capacity and am therefore very interested in dual diagnosis; for which I am equally passionate. Therefore, I would say that my interests lie within the effects of substance misuse on mental health and vice versa. Perhaps this is somewhat of a niche or specialisation within the field of clinical psychology, but it's just what really motivates me at the moment. In fact, I dare say that research within this area would actually be of interest to me. I think the main reason for my dislike of stats/research stems from the fact that my BSc degree focused on really dull subjects which I had no interest in (primarily social psychology) and the prospect of engaging in clinical research which would inspire me to actually want to do it.

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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by CurlyHair » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:28 pm

Eriya wrote:I thought I could maybe get some opinions too? I'm still waiting to hear from two unis regarding interviews for clinical training but I don't have much hope that it's going to be a success. I have been recently thinking about what to do next and have stumbled upon msc psychological therapy in primary care at Dundee university. It sounds like a good next step as it's got a research component as well as a clinical component. It could also be a plan b or c although I've not seen many jobs advertised for CAAPs. I'm also going to try to apply for AP or RA jobs but, again, there's not many in my area. I was wondering what people thought of that course and if maybe anyone actually did it and then successfully applied for clinical psychology?
I can maybe help, I've done the Dundee MSc and am now working as a CAAP. I really enjoyed the course (despite it being a pretty intense year) because it was a good mix of research and direct clinical experience. And while CAAP jobs aren't readily available, there are more and more coming up as time goes on and psychology departments include CAAPs in their service planning (I guess we are still a relatively new breed!). I also know a few current clinical psychology trainees who have done either this MSc or the Edinburgh Uni child MSc.

At the moment I am in the midst of having applied for the doctorate (get a move on Edinburgh and Glasgow!) for the second time, but from the stats they showed us at the end of the CAAP course, most people from the CAAP course that end up doing the doctorate have worked as a CAAP for a couple of years before getting on the course (so I still have some time to put in probably). And I know CAAPs who love the job and have no desire to do the doctorate. I suppose it depends what elements of work you really enjoy - CAAPs mainly spend their time doing direct one-to-one CBT and some group work. So if that's what you want to do then go for it!

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions :)

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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by Eriya » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:53 pm

CurlyHair wrote:
Eriya wrote:I thought I could maybe get some opinions too? I'm still waiting to hear from two unis regarding interviews for clinical training but I don't have much hope that it's going to be a success. I have been recently thinking about what to do next and have stumbled upon msc psychological therapy in primary care at Dundee university. It sounds like a good next step as it's got a research component as well as a clinical component. It could also be a plan b or c although I've not seen many jobs advertised for CAAPs. I'm also going to try to apply for AP or RA jobs but, again, there's not many in my area. I was wondering what people thought of that course and if maybe anyone actually did it and then successfully applied for clinical psychology?
I can maybe help, I've done the Dundee MSc and am now working as a CAAP. I really enjoyed the course (despite it being a pretty intense year) because it was a good mix of research and direct clinical experience. And while CAAP jobs aren't readily available, there are more and more coming up as time goes on and psychology departments include CAAPs in their service planning (I guess we are still a relatively new breed!). I also know a few current clinical psychology trainees who have done either this MSc or the Edinburgh Uni child MSc.

At the moment I am in the midst of having applied for the doctorate (get a move on Edinburgh and Glasgow!) for the second time, but from the stats they showed us at the end of the CAAP course, most people from the CAAP course that end up doing the doctorate have worked as a CAAP for a couple of years before getting on the course (so I still have some time to put in probably). And I know CAAPs who love the job and have no desire to do the doctorate. I suppose it depends what elements of work you really enjoy - CAAPs mainly spend their time doing direct one-to-one CBT and some group work. So if that's what you want to do then go for it!

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions :)
Thanks a lot for your insight :) I just feel like I would enjoy being a CAAP for two years before getting on clinical training much more than being a support worker. Also, like I said this could be a good back up plan :) I am definitely considering this course once I get my two remaining rejections ;)

Ps. Sorry jakejames for hijacking your thread!

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enid
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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by enid » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:15 pm

What is CAAP?

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CurlyHair
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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by CurlyHair » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:17 pm

Clinical Associate in Applied Psychology :)

Eriya
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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by Eriya » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:24 pm

enid wrote:What is CAAP?
Took me a while to find that out. Google wasn't helpful at all! :P

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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by CurlyHair » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:50 pm

Also worth considering that you get a band 6 salary while training as a CAAP.

Plus the Edinburgh University clinical doctorate course has introduced a new feature this year - if you have done the MSc to be a CAAP, you can do the doctorate over 2 1/2 years instead of 3 (and you don't have to do a small scale research study). Interesting recognition that the CAAP course is quite closely aligned to some bits of clinical training.

:D

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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by Eriya » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:44 pm

CurlyHair wrote:Also worth considering that you get a band 6 salary while training as a CAAP.

Plus the Edinburgh University clinical doctorate course has introduced a new feature this year - if you have done the MSc to be a CAAP, you can do the doctorate over 2 1/2 years instead of 3 (and you don't have to do a small scale research study). Interesting recognition that the CAAP course is quite closely aligned to some bits of clinical training.

:D
That's really interesting. When I first read up about the CAAP course I did think to myself that it sounds like a "mini clinical psychology course", haha. Edinburgh is my preferred uni as well. I'm becoming more and more excited about applying for this MSc :)

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Loula
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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by Loula » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:56 am

Don't know if this is helpful or not, but I've always heard that the CAAP course is very competitive (and possibly more so that the DClin?). I only say that because I remember a friend applying a few years ago and not getting an interview, but then getting 3 DClin interviews the same year (and a place) so for her it was easier to get on the course!

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Sangreal
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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by Sangreal » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:08 pm

lingua_franca wrote:I second what the others have said: if you've got a strong 2:i, then there is no point in doing an MSc unless you are particularly interested in the topic.
I'd side with some of the other posters and say it can make a difference, but it very much depends on the context, the content, and how you use the opportunities it will afford you. Due to the level of competitiveness in the Psychology field for "experience-giving-opportunities", I found it almost impossible to even get good volunteering opportunities during my BSc, except for a couple of care-home things (amusingly, I was contacted last week by an organisation to tell me I'm now at the top of their waiting list and am I still interested in volunteering in their service - I registered my interest in 2008...!!!!).

So I took a health psychology MSc. It was an area that interested me, and so a potential alternate career path in case I decided clin psych wasn't for me, and most importantly (in my opinion at the time), it contained four-month summer placement. I managed to swing for a clinical placement in the NHS with supervision from a clinical psychologist. The whole thing proved instrumental in me getting my "foot-in-the-door" of the NHS and securing an assistant psych post immediately after.

Personally, I certainly don't think I would have managed to progress as I have without the MSc teaching and clinical experience, HOWEVER, each to their own, and you (opening poster) do seem to have good, relevant experience, so it's how you learn from that and use it to develop yourself and your ways of thinking that are important.
Loula wrote:...what motivates you to want to be a CP? ... Have you tried to get an AP post? Although there are other options out there (such as your current role, PWP, RA etc), CP supervision is such a helpful thing to have experienced, and also it might give you more of an idea of whether CP is the right path for you?
^Totally agree with Loula here, so won't write all that out again.
Worrying is like a rocking chair - it gives you something to do, but ultimately gets you nowhere.

jakejames1990
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Re: MSc Considerations for D.ClinPsy App

Post by jakejames1990 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:11 pm

FAO Sangreal,

Thanks for the reply. I am personally of the same opinion as yourself with regards to perceiving an MSc as beneficial (and potentially instrumental) in acquiring a clinical placement. For me, this would be due to the research experience I would gain from doing such because I admit that at present, this is my one major flaw. I could quite openly say that, given my background and experience in working in counselling, mental health and dual diagnosis, I am a competent practitioner (which a statistical report of my positive treatment outcomes would show) however my research/stats skills and knowledge is probably adequate at best.

As you and others have also stated, it's not only necessarily what you do or how you do it, but your ability to reflect upon this and critically analyse yourself; detailing how this has impacted on your clinical and professional practice, the transferable skills in relation to clinical doctoral practice and so on.

Thanks to the advice from everyone who has kindly posted on this board, I can verify that, for me, a postgraduate qualification will be necessary to increase my chances of getting a place on the D.ClinPsy. I am still a little torn as to which MSc might benefit me, however. I have heard back from the University of Middlesex with regards to their distance learning MSc in Dual Diagnosis (after making some initial enquiries) and this is one particular course that sounds very relevant to my current practice and passion which might (should!) therefore imply that I would do well at it - not to mention the extensive opportunities to conduct clinically relevant research deriving from my own colleagues and those from the agency as a whole. So it's kind of a coin toss between doing a Masters in an area with which I will do well versus one in an area that will potentially look better (i.e. research methods).

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