NHS England - funding

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theelaughingcow
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NHS England - funding

Post by theelaughingcow » Sun May 01, 2016 5:29 pm

Hi folks,

have I completely missed something or has there been some indication about funding being removed for DClin tuition? I wondered if it would be cut a few years down the line but over the past few weeks I've heard people speaking with some certainty as though this will be implemented within the next few years?

Anyone ~in the know?

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Bon
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by Bon » Sun May 01, 2016 10:26 pm

I'm definitely not in the know but had also heard recently (from a clinical psychologist in the NHS who also lectures on one of the doctorates) that a cut in funding is being discussed for the next intake or the one after next, but nothing set in stone as yet :(

CuppaT
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NHS England - funding

Post by CuppaT » Mon May 02, 2016 12:49 am

I am not in the know myself, but I was made aware of the HEE Review of Clinical and Educational Psychology Training Arrangements (March 2016), which mentions continuing to review training costs. I don't think anything is decided but clearly the training is being looked at.


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alexh
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by alexh » Mon May 02, 2016 7:58 am

The recent changes to nurse bursaries do not seem auspicious.

I wonder if there are any hints in this report on the funding of clinical and educational psych, published in March, or if it is old news as it was commissioned prior to the election and spending review. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nts-report
Looks like a move towards a child and educational stream. The one year AP qualification is interesting.

nicolaannolive
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by nicolaannolive » Mon May 02, 2016 8:55 am

I am also not in the know about this. Having read the training review (education al and clinical psychology training) though, I am concerned about the funding for training and the proposal for separate child and adult courses. The postgrad AP role really confuses me as I am unsure what will happen to the existing APs who have been in post for some time. Reducing or stopping funding for training would of course have to have a knock on effect on the current AP role as it would be difficult to justify paying an AP more than a trainee. I know the debate about funding for dclin has been going on for some time and some other healthcare professionals see it as unfair that we are funded to train (I had my own lively debate at work the other day) but the routes are completely different (for starters we could not get a student loan because we have already had one, have already got a necessary degree). I really hope that any review and subsequent decision would not negatively impact the diversity of future trainees. :x :cry:

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miriam
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by miriam » Tue May 03, 2016 11:19 pm

Nothing like a rumour amplification chamber to reach the worst possible conclusions.

The review of EP and CP training concluded that there should be no change to the training path or funding arrangements, and that the level of demand means the right numbers of training places for CPs are available (though not sufficient for EPs). So it seems unlikely that the natural consequence of that report will be a wholesale change to the funding of CP training.

That said, in a time of austerity it does seem likely that the number of places and how much each is funded will continue to be under scrutiny for each successive cohort.
Miriam

See my blog at http://clinpsyeye.wordpress.com

mm2222
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by mm2222 » Thu May 12, 2016 10:27 am

Hi all,

To follow up on theelaughingcow's post... has anyone heard anything more about this? Is there a possibility that DClinPsych course will not be funded from 2017?! :?

svr
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by svr » Thu May 12, 2016 10:54 am

mm2222 wrote:Hi all,

To follow up on theelaughingcow's post... has anyone heard anything more about this? Is there a possibility that DClinPsych course will not be funded from 2017?! :?
I think Miriam's answer above is probably the most helpful response to this question. I've copied the review reccomendations from the report below (you can read the whole thing here- https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nts-report). From what I can gather (as Miriam has already said) the long and short of it is that for now, clinical training will remain funded by HEE. However this will continue to be reviewed. They mention that by 2020 they hope to be able to 'deliver a national standardized cost per trainee'. I have to admit, I'm not sure what this means but seems unlikely that there will be any massive changes within the next year or so.


Review Recommendations

a. All clinical psychologists wishing to specialise in children and young people, and educational psychologists, will be encouraged, through relevant experience, to develop appropriate transferable skills and build their understanding of children and young people (0-25 years old), including in the domains of educational, health and social care, psychological and mental health services. In addition, where there are common standards of proficiency across the two professions, universities will be encouraged to look for opportunities to teach these together, where appropriate and practicable.

b. The Departments (HEE on behalf of DH) will consider the development of a one year, post graduate qualification of Assistant Psychologist, including an assessment of the views of stakeholders.

c. Health Education England (HEE) will continue to commission training for clinical psychologists on behalf of the Department of Health and National College for Teaching Leadership (NCTL) will continue to commission training for educational psychologists on behalf of the Department for Education.

d. Both Departments (HEE on behalf of DH) will continue to review training costs to examine the potential, to deliver a national standardised cost per trainee for clinical psychology doctorate training and a national standardised cost per trainee for educational psychology doctorate training by 2020.

e. The report setting out the key findings of the review is published/shared with stakeholders who contributed to the review.

alexh
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by alexh » Fri May 13, 2016 12:15 am

I didn't think Miriam's reply answered the original question, it seemed like it dismissed it to me. The question was does anybody know anything about the rumours regarding funding for future cohorts.

As far as I know the answer to the original question is that no-one knows as there has been no decision yet but there is an increased uncertainty and concern about funding for 2017/18 onwards from people who are 'in the know' and further is referred to in the review and the parliamentary responses by the government. We'll know in December. I think svr is incorrect in concluding that things will remain the same until 2020. It's dependent on the response to the consultation on healthcare training funding arrangements.

The aim of that review was mainly to think about possible efficiencies between ed and clin given the overlap for children & young people.
“to consider the scope for a more flexible
clinical and educational psychology workforce, through greater integration of training,
to drive efficiencies and better psychology service delivery for children and young
people”
Here's the relevant section which by my reading confirms the uncertainty regarding 17/18 onwards, as it's likely to be raised during the consultation considering the nurse etc funding changes and then addressed by the government in their response.
In the November 2015 Spending Review, the government announced changes to
how healthcare student places will be funded. The policy intention of the education
funding reforms is to change the funding model for pre-registration undergraduate
and postgraduate courses in nursing, midwifery and allied health courses which are
currently funded through both HEE funded tuition and an NHS bursary/reduced rate
loan for maintenance. From 1st August 2017, the long term funding model for these
courses will be through the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS)
student support package for both tuition and maintenance. This change applies to
new students only commencing courses from 1st August 2017 onwards.

Those undertaking training to be clinical psychologists are not subject to this funding
model, but one which is determined at a local level based on local need, and
therefore falls outside the remit of the funding reforms. For 2016-17 HEE will fund
those commissions set out in the HEE Commissioning and Investment Plan for
2016-17 which was published in December 2015. HEE’s plans for training clinical
psychologists remain unchanged from 2015-16, 526 proposed commissions.

The Government will be consulting shortly on how the reforms are most successfully
implemented and it is likely that respondents to the consultation will wish to raise
issues relating to the future funding for courses operating outside of this delivery and
funding model, such as clinical psychologist training programmes
. The Government
will consider these in the context of its consultation response.
The consultation closes on the 30th of June. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/heal ... n-launched

see also http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id ... er%3A24922 (where the opposition ask directly about clin psych and receive the same response, we're consulting on it and we'll get back to you.

and a linked to section regarding the plan for nurses &tc.
As part of this, the government will reform the funding system for health students by replacing grants with student loans and abolishing the cap on the number of student places for nursing, midwifery and allied health subjects, enabling the provision of up to 10,000 additional nursing and health professional training places this Parliament. This will reduce the current reliance on expensive agency staff. The move to loans will also mean access to 25% more financial support for health students during their studies.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/depa ... eview-2015

As an aside isn't that statement disingenuous to a stunning degree? We'll increase places by 10000 and financial support by 25% .... but you'll have to pay it back with interest. If you consider that and feel optimistic about clin psych funding I admire your sunny disposition.

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Borrowed Cone
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by Borrowed Cone » Fri May 13, 2016 9:48 pm

alexh wrote: Here's the relevant section which by my reading confirms the uncertainty regarding 17/18 onwards, as it's likely to be raised during the consultation considering the nurse etc funding changes and then addressed by the government in their response...
The Government will be consulting shortly on how the reforms are most successfully
implemented and it is likely that respondents to the consultation will wish to raise
issues relating to the future funding for courses operating outside of this delivery and
funding model, such as clinical psychologist training programmes
. The Government
will consider these in the context of its consultation response.
The consultation closes on the 30th of June. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/heal ... n-launched...

As an aside isn't that statement disingenuous to a stunning degree? We'll increase places by 10000 and financial support by 25% .... but you'll have to pay it back with interest. If you consider that and feel optimistic about clin psych funding I admire your sunny disposition.
I have had a look at the reforming healthcare web page: https://consultations.dh.gov.uk/workfor ... on-funding
These changes will affect students on the following courses:

nursing – adult
nursing – children
nursing – mental health
nursing – learning and disability
midwifery
dietetics
occupational therapy
orthoptics
orthotics and prosthetics
physiotherapy
podiatry/chiropody
radiography (diagnostic and therapeutic)
speech and language therapy
operating department practice
dental hygiene
dental therapy
It appears clinical psychology trainees, who are not already subject to the NHS bursary system, will not be affected by this round of changes.

That doesn't mean it will never happen but there is no provision in the above consultation to undertake changes to clinical psychology training from 01 August 2017.

The Cone
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alexh
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by alexh » Fri May 13, 2016 10:02 pm

Dear cone, I refer you to my previous answer, or rather to the under secretary's response to labour's question about clinical psychology funding linked to therein, the final two sentences. I emboldened it above for emphasis. They're not included in the consideration but will be considered if raised in any responses.
The Government is currently consulting on how the education and funding reforms for pre-registration undergraduate and postgraduate non-medical courses (nursing, midwifery and allied health courses) which are currently funded through both HEE funded tuition and an NHS bursary/reduced rate loan for maintenance are most successfully implemented. Respondents to the consultation may wish to raise issues relating to the funding for courses operating outside of this model, such as clinical psychology training programmes. The Government will consider these in the context of its consultation response.

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Borrowed Cone
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by Borrowed Cone » Fri May 13, 2016 10:11 pm

Ah I completely missed that! Thanks. My impression is that it is almost a secondary issue, but as I said, it's not impossible that it will happen.

It will certainly be interesting to consider the impact of any potential changes to the funding stream. I tried to access the impact assessment document but couldn't get it to work sadly.

The Cone
"We can rebuild him. We have the technology. But I don't want to spend a lot of money..."

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miriam
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by miriam » Mon May 16, 2016 10:31 pm

alexh wrote:I didn't think Miriam's reply answered the original question, it seemed like it dismissed it to me. The question was does anybody know anything about the rumours regarding funding for future cohorts.
And I dismissed it because there is nothing more than rumours. There is never a guarantee of future funding, but there is nothing on the horizon which immediately threatens the current picture, and the latest review recommended things stay the same. So in what way is it helpful to anybody to speculate further about rumours?
Miriam

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alexh
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by alexh » Tue May 17, 2016 11:26 am

The government are inviting the consultation respondees to draw us into consideration. That's not a rumour.

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maven
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Re: NHS England - funding

Post by maven » Tue May 17, 2016 1:35 pm

But what meaning are future applicants meant to draw from that? Beyond acknowledging that exists, how can we help people to understand that? Because in my view encouraging catastrophising rumours about future funding isn't really helpful to anyone.
Maven.

Wise men talk because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something - Plato
The fool thinks himself to be wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool - Shakespeare

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