PgCert question

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fabio
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PgCert question

Post by fabio » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:37 pm

Hi guys,
in 2009 I decided to study for a MSc in Social Psychology.
I took on the course but only managed to be awarded a PgCert because I failed my dissertation(twice to be precise).The blame is all mine since I could not decide on a topic soon enough and when I did,I could not get someone to supervise it.I managed to find a supervisor remotely interested in my topic and methodology of choice but I procrastinated and my work was of really bad standard.I quickly understood that it was a bad decision to take up this course for a variety of reasons(financial,personal and professional) and the outcome only confirmed this.
My question for you is twofold.
Firstly,I would like to know how much and in what ways will this be an issue for me in my pursuit for a career in clinical psychology.I did really well on my undergrad thesis and can justify in detail why I failed my MSc Thesis.I am academically competent and I strongly believe I can manage a Doctoral course.Also,I have done many things since the PgCert strictly relating to Clinical Psychology but academically,this is my last checkpoint.
Secondly,do you know any courses of action I can take in order to convert my PgCert into a MSc?Any courses that I can transfer my credits?The uni that awarded my Pgcert has made clear that there is nothing that can be done within their department as far as they are concerned.

Thank you for your time,
All best.

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Geishawife
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Re: PgCert question

Post by Geishawife » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:10 pm

What class of first degree did you get? If you managed to get a high 2:1 or a First, the lack of an MSc might not matter, but if you have a 2:2 at undergrad then your PG Cert will definitely not be enough to compensate. I'm afraid that failing to complete a thesis will probably raise serious concerns amongst selectors as your doctoral thesis will be a huge part of clinical training (ask any current second or third year trainee!!). To fail it TWICE will possibly raise twice the concern!! You state that you can justify why you failed. I think you will need to be as reflective and honest as possible and make a very strong case for your undergrad thesis being more indicative of your ability. The more concrete evidence you can provide for this (such as a good academic reference from your undergrad course) the better. But I have to be honest and say that I think it will be a struggle when there are many other applicants who have passed theses without such difficulties. That's not to say you shouldn't try to make the case for your research skills being good enough, but do be realistic.

Have you considered maybe a research assistant role? That might bolster your research credentials a little and might be more advantageous than collecting more direct clinical experience, which is unlikely to compensate for any apparent lack of academic strength.

I'm afraid I have no idea as to whether or not you can transfer credits to other courses or universities. I would suggest that you maybe contact a few university admissions offices and explain your situation and ask their advice. Different institutions have different policies and procedures, so ask around to as many as you can and see what they say. Sadly, you might have to bite the bullet and undertake another MSc, but check with various universities first and see what they say.

Good luck!!!

fabio
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Re: PgCert question

Post by fabio » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:29 pm

Geishawife wrote:What class of first degree did you get? If you managed to get a high 2:1 or a First, the lack of an MSc might not matter, but if you have a 2:2 at undergrad then your PG Cert will definitely not be enough to compensate. I'm afraid that failing to complete a thesis will probably raise serious concerns amongst selectors as your doctoral thesis will be a huge part of clinical training (ask any current second or third year trainee!!). To fail it TWICE will possibly raise twice the concern!! You state that you can justify why you failed. I think you will need to be as reflective and honest as possible and make a very strong case for your undergrad thesis being more indicative of your ability. The more concrete evidence you can provide for this (such as a good academic reference from your undergrad course) the better. But I have to be honest and say that I think it will be a struggle when there are many other applicants who have passed theses without such difficulties. That's not to say you shouldn't try to make the case for your research skills being good enough, but do be realistic.

Have you considered maybe a research assistant role? That might bolster your research credentials a little and might be more advantageous than collecting more direct clinical experience, which is unlikely to compensate for any apparent lack of academic strength.

I'm afraid I have no idea as to whether or not you can transfer credits to other courses or universities. I would suggest that you maybe contact a few university admissions offices and explain your situation and ask their advice. Different institutions have different policies and procedures, so ask around to as many as you can and see what they say. Sadly, you might have to bite the bullet and undertake another MSc, but check with various universities first and see what they say.

Good luck!!!
My BSc is with a good 2.1 and my thesis got an A2.
Also,my supervisor can also act as my referee and his opinion of me and my skills is quite good actually!My undergrad thesis as well my MSc thesis used qualitative methodologies.The ironic part of it being that I was successful at passing a Critical discourse analysis course during my master's year, but failing at a dissertation using a much simpler methodology.I understand that this is a rather shadowy part of my academic record and will have to try very hard to overcome it.But it is what it is!Thank you for your reply and your very useful input :)

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enid
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Re: PgCert question

Post by enid » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:37 pm

If you have a certificate that says you have a PGCert, I wouldn't mention the fact that you failed the MSc bit - just say you got a PGCert?
(Or is that too dishonest!?)

fabio
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Re: PgCert question

Post by fabio » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:18 pm

My degree says Pgcert but my transcript tells a different story!

Megzi
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Re: PgCert question

Post by Megzi » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:39 pm

fabio wrote:My degree says Pgcert but my transcript tells a different story!
I don't think there is much interest in your postgraduate transcripts providing your first degree is BPS accredited. Although I may be wrong as my MSc was incomplete at the point of applications.

fabio
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Re: PgCert question

Post by fabio » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 am

Since I've already applied once for the Clinical Doctorate,only the BSC transcript was required to be attached ,along with the BPS letter.l am not sure whether or not they ask for it at an interview though.

AnalyseThis
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Re: PgCert question

Post by AnalyseThis » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:52 am

Personally, I would just state that you completed a PGCert and leave it at that. You would be ommitting information, but I think in the cut throat world of the CP application process it's probably the best option. If you applied for courses with selection tests however, it probably wouldn't matter as much, since you'd demonstrate your academic ability through the test.

I just wondered, do you feel confident that the issues that prevented you from completing the dissertation would be resolved if you were to get a place? Or could this be something that you might need to seek further support to address?

fabio
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Re: PgCert question

Post by fabio » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:24 pm

At the time it was financial and personal reasons ,in the most part,that led to the fail.I am Greek and this was at the beginning of this so called "crisis" and my family took a hard hit.I now know that I should quit and resume at a later date rather than go on with all that pressure.It is not a matter of poor academic practice from my part,but me not being able to function properly whilst thinking about all these things going on.Getting on a course where I can support myself financially in full,as is the case of a clinical psychology course, is a great way for me to reach my standards and be competent.My supervisors and referees think the same to be honest.
Thank you guys for your time!!!

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Geishawife
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Re: PgCert question

Post by Geishawife » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:36 pm

AnalyseThis wrote:Personally, I would just state that you completed a PGCert and leave it at that. You would be ommitting information, but I think in the cut throat world of the CP application process it's probably the best option.
Do be VERY careful about being "selective" about what information you put down on an application form, whether it's for the clinical doctorate or any other post. Whilst in this specific instance it might not matter (although I'm not convinced by that!) don't forget that you are dealing with a legal document and the information you provide needs to be honest and accurate to the best of your knowledge. Given that, if you willingly withhold information that could be salient to the application you could land yourself in a whole heap of trouble! Of course, I'm not suggesting that all applications have to include all information about you (omitting a paper round from when you were 14 is hardly problematic!) but just be careful when deciding what to include and what not to include that you don't do something that could be construed as dishonest, even if you didn't see it that way.

AnalyseThis
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Re: PgCert question

Post by AnalyseThis » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:24 pm

Geishawife wrote:
AnalyseThis wrote:Personally, I would just state that you completed a PGCert and leave it at that. You would be ommitting information, but I think in the cut throat world of the CP application process it's probably the best option.
Do be VERY careful about being "selective" about what information you put down on an application form, whether it's for the clinical doctorate or any other post. Whilst in this specific instance it might not matter (although I'm not convinced by that!) don't forget that you are dealing with a legal document and the information you provide needs to be honest and accurate to the best of your knowledge. Given that, if you willingly withhold information that could be salient to the application you could land yourself in a whole heap of trouble! Of course, I'm not suggesting that all applications have to include all information about you (omitting a paper round from when you were 14 is hardly problematic!) but just be careful when deciding what to include and what not to include that you don't do something that could be construed as dishonest, even if you didn't see it that way.
I don't personally see this as being dishonest, in this instance. If you choose to include on any application that you completed a PGCert, you are clearly stating the qualification that you have achieved. Legally you have not done anything wrong providing you are honest about the dates in which you completed the award. You are not lying and you can evidence your qualification with a certificate. A PGCert will not be looked apon as favourably as an MSc, so you will not gain any advantage over others that completed an MSc.

I suppose there is a risk that selectors might wonder why it has taken two years to complete a PGcert, but in my opinion if they have any concerns, they can ask you at interview. I think this is quite a personal decision, so probably something to discuss in supervision or with people you know well. I imagine that this is something that will always divide the crowd and people will have different opinions.

I just got a place on a clinical training course and I was suprised how relaxed the HR department were about obtaining qualifications. They just asked for the basic degree certificate.

JamesFManc
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Re: PgCert question

Post by JamesFManc » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:55 pm

Where do you get a BPS letter from please?

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BlueCat
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Re: PgCert question

Post by BlueCat » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:14 pm

JamesFManc wrote:Where do you get a BPS letter from please?
From the BPS.
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