Deciding to withdraw from the process

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RhubarbCrumble
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Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by RhubarbCrumble » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:10 pm

Rapid wrote:3rd time applying:

Salomons
Essex

Coventry [Withdrawn]
East London [Withdrawn]

Decided I can't be wasting my life with this anymore, there is so much out there to do. Also I can't be jumping between jobs on £20k going into my 30s, its so embarrassing and not a sustainable way to live.

Another dream crushed by the "process". CBT training here I come!

Sorry to hear that Rapid. Withdrawing your application is a brave decision. Hope it works out for you!
Last edited by BenJMan on Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Posts seperated from progress thread and title edited to match discussion

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Doodlebug
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Re: The Great Big Progress Thread for 2017 entry DClinPsy

Post by Doodlebug » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:17 pm

Rapid wrote:3rd time applying:

Salomons
Essex

Coventry [Withdrawn]
East London [Withdrawn]

Decided I can't be wasting my life with this anymore, there is so much out there to do. Also I can't be jumping between jobs on £20k going into my 30s, its so embarrassing and not a sustainable way to live.

Another dream crushed by the "process". CBT training here I come!

Oh rapid, I have been meaning to send you a message as I came across your earlier posts on the 0 club thread some time ago. I am at work at the moment and want to spend a bit longer on my reply so will post again later or DM you if that's OK. But I will say I was in your position some time ago and have this year applied after 4 years out. I instead considered medicine and after deciding that wasn't for me I trained in CBT (going from a band 4 to 7 in a very short time). I am now in a position where I've had time out to do other things, reflect, grow and realise that i can now roll with the process without the turbulence I used to feel! don't give up, it will all work out in the end.

Doodlebug

lakeland
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Re: The Great Big Progress Thread for 2017 entry DClinPsy

Post by lakeland » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:08 pm

Very brave to withdraw. I'm sure other people may have had similar experiences to me, but I got
3 rejections then my last letter was an offer to interview, which turned into an offer for a place.

Good luck in your next steps.

Rapid
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The Great Big Progress Thread for 2017 entry DClinPsy

Post by Rapid » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:03 am

Why is it brave? I'm just not interested in doing the Doctorate anymore.
Doodlebug wrote: Oh rapid, I have been meaning to send you a message as I came across your earlier posts on the 0 club thread some time ago. I am at work at the moment and want to spend a bit longer on my reply so will post again later or DM you if that's OK. But I will say I was in your position some time ago and have this year applied after 4 years out. I instead considered medicine and after deciding that wasn't for me I trained in CBT (going from a band 4 to 7 in a very short time). I am now in a position where I've had time out to do other things, reflect, grow and realise that i can now roll with the process without the turbulence I used to feel! don't give up, it will all work out in the end.

Doodlebug
That's good to hear Doodlebug, but I'm not you. I want to live my life and enjoy it, as well as developing in a less toxic environment. The profession is very idealised by all those in it and I'll be relieved to get away from such people who believe that I should be applying to do the doctorate more than I actually want to.

sparkling
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Re: The Great Big Progress Thread for 2017 entry DClinPsy

Post by sparkling » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:04 am

I'm afraid I agree. So if you had received invites to interview I'm imagining the turnaround in attitude wouldn't have happened? Maybe I'm wrong.
And I am speaking as a 35 year old trying to pay for childcare for 2 kids on a 20k salary having applied for the last 4 years following a career change. So I do know kicks in the teeth and frustration. But I don't think anyone is saying you "should" want to do the career at all. God knows why we all do in some ways!!

lakeland
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The Great Big Progress Thread for 2017 entry DClinPsy

Post by lakeland » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:54 am

I suppose I said brave because you've decided to forfeit when you still had a chance of getting an interview. But if as you say, you've made the decision that you're not going to follow this path any more, then your actions seem more pragmatic. However, I think I'm not the only one questioning whether you would have withdrawn at this stage if one of the courses you've heard from so far had offered you an interview.

I do find it interesting when people have 'broken away' from what can be a toxic process at times, so I hope you stick around and share how you're finding life outside of the ClinPsych hamster wheel!

Doodlebug
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Re: The Great Big Progress Thread for 2017 entry DClinPsy

Post by Doodlebug » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:40 am

Rapid wrote:Why is it brave? I'm just not interested in doing the Doctorate anymore.
Doodlebug wrote: Oh rapid, I have been meaning to send you a message as I came across your earlier posts on the 0 club thread some time ago. I am at work at the moment and want to spend a bit longer on my reply so will post again later or DM you if that's OK. But I will say I was in your position some time ago and have this year applied after 4 years out. I instead considered medicine and after deciding that wasn't for me I trained in CBT (going from a band 4 to 7 in a very short time). I am now in a position where I've had time out to do other things, reflect, grow and realise that i can now roll with the process without the turbulence I used to feel! don't give up, it will all work out in the end.

Doodlebug
That's good to hear Doodlebug, but I'm not you. I want to live my life and enjoy it, as well as developing in a less toxic environment. The profession is very idealised by all those in it and I'll be relieved to get away from such people who believe that I should be applying to do the doctorate more than I actually want to.

I agree with you, you absolutely should live your life and enjoy it. It seems this process has clearly taken its toll and I am sorry that it has affected you in such a way. I don't believe as others have said that anyone here thinks you should be applying - if as you say you've decided it's not for you then that is a sensible decision. However you have come across to me personally as quite angry/bitter about the process and it seems you have invested a lot in it. This is where I think it goes wrong for applicants, when so much is invested that it overshadows other equally important aspects of life. I don't believe all applicants are unable to live and enjoy their lives just because they are going through the DClinPsy application journey and if one finds that it is overshadowing everything else then I would question their readiness for it. I wish you well in your future.

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ell
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Re: The Great Big Progress Thread for 2017 entry DClinPsy

Post by ell » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:59 pm

Okie dokie folks, let's not derail the progress thread.

Wishing everyone a good Thursday, whatever they are doing.

Rapid
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Re: The Great Big Progress Thread for 2017 entry DClinPsy

Post by Rapid » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:41 pm

sparkling wrote:I'm afraid I agree. So if you had received invites to interview I'm imagining the turnaround in attitude wouldn't have happened? Maybe I'm wrong.
And I am speaking as a 35 year old trying to pay for childcare for 2 kids on a 20k salary having applied for the last 4 years following a career change. So I do know kicks in the teeth and frustration. But I don't think anyone is saying you "should" want to do the career at all. God knows why we all do in some ways!!
Yes you are wrong, which is why I withdrew. Its not that I "should", its when people around you give you false confidence and try to tell you that you should do something because you can, when in fact the people that make the decisions don't agree. Its not healthy, so when people ask for advice from me I try to keep realistic and genuine.
lakeland wrote:I suppose I said brave because you've decided to forfeit when you still had a chance of getting an interview. But if as you say, you've made the decision that you're not going to follow this path any more, then your actions seem more pragmatic. However, I think I'm not the only one questioning whether you would have withdrawn at this stage if one of the courses you've heard from so far had offered you an interview.

I do find it interesting when people have 'broken away' from what can be a toxic process at times, so I hope you stick around and share how you're finding life outside of the ClinPsych hamster wheel!
If one of my choices had given me an interview, I would go (great experience of course) but after I would have a serious think about whether it is what I want to do and whether I would be good at it. Right now, it feels like I wouldn't be and I have other options so I'd rather go with those. I won't stick around I'm afraid as I don't see it as relevant to what you guys discuss on this forum.
Doodlebug wrote:I agree with you, you absolutely should live your life and enjoy it. It seems this process has clearly taken its toll and I am sorry that it has affected you in such a way. I don't believe as others have said that anyone here thinks you should be applying - if as you say you've decided it's not for you then that is a sensible decision. However you have come across to me personally as quite angry/bitter about the process and it seems you have invested a lot in it. This is where I think it goes wrong for applicants, when so much is invested that it overshadows other equally important aspects of life. I don't believe all applicants are unable to live and enjoy their lives just because they are going through the DClinPsy application journey and if one finds that it is overshadowing everything else then I would question their readiness for it. I wish you well in your future.
Don't be sorry, it is what it is. Woah slow down! I never said anyone on here said I should be applying, I was referring to the people around me. I think its quite normal to be frustrated by the process, if you're not then you don't really want it. It does stop you from living your life in the sense that you can't really plan major life events when you're expecting to hear back every year. For example, I wouldn't book holidays or plan to get married or have kids when you're waiting for a decision as you have to be prepared on some level for the next step if it arrives. I wouldn't say I've invested that much in it or it is overshadowing anything in my life right now, but it was something to aim for. But to me, 10 rejections in any walk of life has to tell you something!
ell wrote:Okie dokie folks, let's not derail the progress thread
I'll leave you lot to it.
Last edited by BenJMan on Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Minor edits to remove personal arguments

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BenJMan
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by BenJMan » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:03 pm

I've pulled these series of posts from the progress thread and given them their own space.

Please try to keep things from getting 'personal'. I have made some brief edits above as the tone of messages was becoming unnecessarily argumentative. That said I have left the thread in place as there is a good place for reflecting on the decision to continue or withdraw from this career path, something others could learn from.
I think a hero is any person really intent on making this a better place for all people ~ Maya Angelou.

astra
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by astra » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:05 pm

Thinking back to when I was applying I remember feeling quite upset by other people's decisions to "give up on clinical". I think for me it was because I couldn't imagine giving up on it at that point and didn't want to contemplate it myself, so didn't want to hear about others who had. Of course looking back it was none of my business if other people chose a different path or not. It turned out well for me in the end, I know it also turned out fine for a friend who did take another path. Its just so easy to get caught up in the emotion of the process and then it becomes hard to see beyond it. It can be toxic at times and we all have to make our own decisions about how much of that we can tolerate. I do think it's nice to encourage people who are a bit fed up with it all, but we have to be careful not to get into cheerleading people on when maybe another path would suit them better, or they've had enough of this one.
From the point of view of mindfulness, as long as you're breathing there's more right with you than wrong with you. Jon Kabat-Zinn

SamH
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by SamH » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:39 pm

Yeah I agree with Astra, it's not helpful to blindly cheer folks on. I'm guilty of that, and my friends and family are certainly guilty of it! They are trying to be nice but comments like 'They'd be mad not to take you on the course' are sweet but completely unhelpful and unrealistic. It's better to sit down and really have a think about whether this is the right road, right time, right place...

This is my first and only year applying. If I don't get through this time I won't be back. I'll go for Stage 2 Health (hopefully). I've worked for a long time, and if my skills and blind enthusiasm isn't enough now, it never will be. :lol: To be clear though, I'm not actually bitter, I just feel that there's things I want from life right now, and waiting around another year for the slim chance, just doesn't seem worth it.

I do feel sad that options are so limited to become an applied psychologist. And I feel the BPS is quite outdated and elitist. It depresses me no end seeing all these amazing CPD training courses that are priced at £200 or £300 for 1 or 2 days. That may not seem like much to those who are qualified but for the rest it's a lot of money. Recently I was advised to go to a conference for information and networking, (fantastic advice) but it's not near me, so it means cost of train journey, hotel for over night stay (1night at least), food while away, and then cost of conference itself.

I mean really, how does one enter this elite world on a budget? :oops:

Sorry rant over!!

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Spatch
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by Spatch » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:57 pm

Decided I can't be wasting my life with this anymore, there is so much out there to do. Also I can't be jumping between jobs on £20k going into my 30s, its so embarrassing and not a sustainable way to live.

Another dream crushed by the "process". CBT training here I come!
I think it's completely understandable for someone to feel that way, and one can't just keep hoping indefinitely. I wish you well for the future. You are right. No one else is you, and it can be infuriating to be "encouraged" based on other people's expectations or ideas.

Also it's helpful to have posts like this which reflect the experience of the majority of applicants rather than the few that are successful each year. I always maintain we don't give enough emphasis to those of us who chose alternative routes, and that maintains the unhelpful myth of clinical being the only option. Most go onto do equally (if not more) fulfilling roles and sometimes this happens before training, sometimes it happens afterwards.
I do feel sad that options are so limited to become an applied psychologist. And I feel the BPS is quite outdated and elitist. It depresses me no end seeing all these amazing CPD training courses that are priced at £200 or £300 for 1 or 2 days. That may not seem like much to those who are qualified but for the rest it's a lot of money. Recently I was advised to go to a conference for information and networking, (fantastic advice) but it's not near me, so it means cost of train journey, hotel for over night stay (1night at least), food while away, and then cost of conference itself.

I mean really, how does one enter this elite world on a budget?


It is tough, but I don't know if it's entirely a BPS thing. Across the world, training to be an applied psychologist is equally tricky and even more expensive in places like the US or Canada, where everything is self funded. However, CPD costs are often borne (or shared) by employing organisations, so some of that may be negotiating with employers. At other times the BPS will actively seek out "volunteers" to work at events like conferences or workshops, where undergrads etc can attend without paying anything. Sometimes directly contacting the facilitators and asking can help too, especially if you can offer them something they would find useful.
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SamH
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by SamH » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:11 pm

Spatch wrote: It is tough, but I don't know if it's entirely a BPS thing. Across the world, training to be an applied psychologist is equally tricky and even more expensive in places like the US or Canada, where everything is self funded. However, CPD costs are often borne (or shared) by employing organisations, so some of that may be negotiating with employers. At other times the BPS will actively seek out "volunteers" to work at events like conferences or workshops, where undergrads etc can attend without paying anything. Sometimes directly contacting the facilitators and asking can help too, especially if you can offer them something they would find useful.
This is true that it is a problem across the globe but I think it is a problem. Particularly if you are trying to compete with people who can afford all these added extras. It is a hangover of medical-type elitist approach to the profession. (Just my personal opinion).
The only positive to Canada and US is there is actually funding options available there, I have a friend who is Canadian, studying medicine in Australia with a student loan from Canada. Student loans aren't ideal but at least it gives you options. Self funding Stage 2 Health will be difficult for me, but I am determined to become an applied psychologist!

Yeah it's generally impossible to get Not for profit/ charities to pay for training, in some cases I've had to pay for mandatory training myself :shock:

Really good idea about contacting the facilitators, never thought of that!

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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by confuseddotcom » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:12 pm

I think Rapid's feelings and action are totally understandable. I also think it's unfair to throw around words like "bitter" or to question the amount of investment put in. It's a reality that many people voice, face and are also afraid of. Typical thoughts are around "what happens if I never get on", "I have no plan b", "i'm too far into this route to turn back". It's a career of our choosing and own graft, hence why each rejection hurts and dents our confidence in our future on this pathway and also in our abilities. Yes this route in particular is highly competitive, we're all aware of this. But this, I guess, explains why people spend years swinging between anger and dejection towards ourselves but also this route. Because it really isn't clear whether its the person thats not suitable or their 'luck' that year. And as the years go by I can see why many have to give up, for a multitude of reasons. So yes Rapid, it is a brave step. A brave step to stop and rethink. Many don't.

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