Deciding to withdraw from the process

Discuss applications to the clearing house (and to courses that are not in the clearing house system), screening assessments, interviews, reserve lists, places, etc. here
ChipChip
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by ChipChip » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:27 pm

I think having read Rapid's post earlier that I can see why people would think that withdrawing is brave - resisting the urge to find out if one of those other applications could have turned into an interview would be very difficult for most. But that's assuming that Rapid hasn't reached the end of their tether with the process but they have. It doesn't mean they no longer have anything to add to the forum though so it was a shame to see the last few comments which I think have now been deleted.

I think it's nice to see a balance between people who have chosen a different path and it would be nice to hear from more people who have decided that clinical isn't for them. I decided not to apply this year I ummmed and ahhhed but come November my heart wasn't in it and surprisingly (for me) I wasn't even concerned about a plan b. I had one interview last year and got on a interview reserve list but the process took over my life for months. After the interview I realised that personally (after a few tough years in my private life) I wasn't ready and instead spent the rest of the year working on myself and looking after myself. I don't think it is worth letting the process take over your life and people could do with more success stories where people have chosen a different path. I started looking for a new job at the end of 2016 and when my manager found out I got offered the opportunity to interview for a training contract for a PBS post that I've wanted for a long time. This could land me on a completely different path than clinical and I'm not sure if I will apply again but I'll probably still be lurking on the forum :lol:

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DanJJJJJJ
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by DanJJJJJJ » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:01 am

I don't really understand all this stuff about this taking over your life. You do the application, no big deal. You get an interview or don't. You prep for the interview and attend it. You get on a course or not. Yes, it's nerve racking but I really think some people on here over think this. Why not use some of those psychological techniques that you should know about not to excessively worry and procrastinate. The amount of catastrophising on here is frankly bizarre to me. If the entirety of your life goal is to get on a DclinPsych maybe it's time top reevaluate? I read someone on here saying that this rhetoric would imply not caring enough...nonsense. I mean, is that what you would tell your GAD client?

ChipChip
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by ChipChip » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:33 am

I think your view is very limited some people invest a lot of time, energy and money into developing before even getting on the doctorate with no guarantee that they ever will and this can involve huge personal sacrifices including relationships, moving for jobs, waiting to have kids, buying a house etc,etc. Therefore getting on (or not getting on the course) can have a massive effect on people's lives. Especially keeping in mind the salary difference between an assistant wage and the trainee wage why would you not consider it to be all consuming.

Point me in the direction of the career you can easily step into when you've been rejected from the doctorate 4 or 5 times and have no core profession.

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boundless
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Location: Kent, UK

Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by boundless » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:55 am

I agree ChipChip - it's not necessarily directly about the course but about everything that comes with the rejections / waiting. Not being able to settle down in a place without thinking 'Next year I might have to move', the low pay despite having a degree and many years experience, and even the smaller things like not being able to book a holiday for the end of the year because of that small chance you might be on a course by then! :lol: If you're able to separate all that from the actual application process then great, but I know for many of us that's very difficult.

DanJJJJJJ
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by DanJJJJJJ » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:31 am

Hey look I understand where you are both coming from and agree with your statements. I think the problem is the process has a binary outcome. People obsess over a particular outcome and invest all their resources into that outcome, which is quite unhealthy IMO, but I guess that is how this works... It also seems to foster a sense of entitlement and, to be honest, a bit of snobbery. This is understandable in a system where it ends up with "the haves" and "the have nots". It feels a bit like everyone scrambling for the last dinghy left on the Titanic, where everyone thinks they have some right to be on that dinghy. Anyway, long story short - I can see where Rapid is coming from.

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GMT
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by GMT » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:59 am

All the best for the future Rapid, hope CBT training goes well. If you did want to post a thread letting other people know how you get on, I bet there's loads of people here who would want to read about other options.

DanJJJJJJ, I guess the problem is that while the process has a binary outcome, it coincides and interacts with an annual cycle of moving house and job every year because a lot of us are on 12 month contracts. If you're in a stable job, it's far easier to deal with 4 rejections or a long period in reserve list limbo. If you're also doing 4-5 other pretty competitive interviews (and sending out twenty odd applications to get those), looking down the barrel of your cash drying up in a month or two, then even without being "obsessed" over any particular outcome, you're probably going to worry a bit - what if no one gives me a job this time? (Granted, my view might be skewed by my contracts over the last 4 years all running out during interview season, but given how long the process takes, I think my situation is probably not unique).

Yeah, some people feel like they're running for the last lifeboat. With bursaries for other core professions getting cut, those of us who don't have a lot of money can feel like we're running out of time or financially viable options. Are people in that situation shovelling resources at a long shot outcome? Absolutely. It is a risk. But for some of us it's a more practical option than shelling out cash we don't have for other training. Do some people get blinkered and not spot other potential options? Without a doubt. But we don't all have the same range of options. Are some people frustrated and cranky? Of course they are. But in most cases, thinking you should be on the last lifeboat isn't entitlement, it's just common-or-garden desperation. The process shouldn't be making people desperate, but the process doesn't exist in a vacuum.
“What is to give light must endure burning.” - Dr. Viktor Frankl

DanJJJJJJ
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by DanJJJJJJ » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:31 pm

Well put GMT. I think I come from a very different place than a lot on here. I have built a career as a psychotherapist primarily but love the idea of doing the clinpsych. If I get on great but I defo don't have all my eggs in one basket. For me a problem seems to be people who are still (in my opinion) very young making all their decisions toward getting on a course, which they may well fail at, when they should just be focusing on building a career to the point where they can make a good fist at applying whilst also having other options. But at the same time I partied through a lot of my 20's and was not focused at all on career and I am making my first serious application attempt beyond mid 30's, which I understand isn't for everyone.

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stephenkingfan
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by stephenkingfan » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:39 pm

ChipChip wrote:I think your view is very limited some people invest a lot of time, energy and money into developing before even getting on the doctorate with no guarantee that they ever will and this can involve huge personal sacrifices including relationships, moving for jobs, waiting to have kids, buying a house etc,etc. Therefore getting on (or not getting on the course) can have a massive effect on people's lives. Especially keeping in mind the salary difference between an assistant wage and the trainee wage why would you not consider it to be all consuming.

Point me in the direction of the career you can easily step into when you've been rejected from the doctorate 4 or 5 times and have no core profession.
This pretty much sums up how I have experienced this process and how I am feeling at the moment. This is my third time applying in 4 years and I am seriously considering not applying again if I don't get a place this year. I don't know how much longer I can keep putting my life on hold in the hope of getting onto the training. The training is all I ever wanted to do and planned for since picking psychology as an A level when I was 17. I've always thought psychology was the only thing I can do, but now I am starting to think about other career options. At age 29, I feel a bit panicked and like it's 'too late' to change career now.

I find the lack of feedback at application stage very difficult as I constantly wonder where I went wrong. I took a £6000 pay cut from my job to take an AP post, which was great experience, however meant I have to leave the flat I was renting and move back with family. My 12 month contract on my current flat is up in May but I don't know where I will be living yet (if I need to move at all!).

I think this is my last year as I need to consider stability and finances now. It is really hard to think about giving up on something I've worked towards for so long (every education and career choice for the past decade or so!). It's a long old journey when you look back.

I am wondering if anyone else has plan B careers in mind and what these might be? [not sure if this should be a separate thread?]. I went from working as an AP to working developing psychosocial content for an online platform. This is a super interesting role and one I can stay in as an alternative to CP training.

laydee89
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by laydee89 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:29 pm

I thought I'd add my story to this thread as it seems very relevant! After applying for the fourth time this year, I have also decided to withdraw my application. I had one interview last year (my first and only!) and it went SO badly. It actually made me think 'would I actually be able to do the doctorate at all if I can't answer some of these questions?' I was heavily pregnant at the time but I don't think the outcome would have been any different had I not been. It made me face up to the fact that I can't afford to chase this dream forever, funding for the course is going to be cut/significantly reduced over the next few years and I now have a family to provide for. It is a real possibility that I may never get on no matter how hard I try/want it. The reality is that a lot of people who want to become Clinical Psychologists never will be, for a variety of factors. I have really enjoyed the jobs that I've had along the way, I've worked in some great teams, had the privilege of working with some incredible service users and have made some life-long friends. I've also learnt a huge amount about myself.

I have managed to gain a place on a graduate scheme with the National Audit Office as an Assistant Auditor and they are going to pay for me to do my training to become a Chartered Accountant so I start that in September! A completely different career path and challenge but one that I'm sure I'll enjoy. The application process for this made me see just how many transferable skills that a background in psychology provides you, and I was able to draw upon many examples from my work in my interviews.

I wanted to add my story so that people who are worrying about not having a plan B and no clue what they might do if psychology doesn't work out for them might be able to see that there are other things you can do with your life. I definitely struggled with feelings of 'being a failure' when I decided to not pursue clinical psychology any more but then realised I haven't failed at all, I've done incredibly well to have had several assistant posts and to have been offered an interview last year. At the end of the day (and I can't believe I'm saying this) CP is just a job and there are many more jobs and career paths out there that you would enjoy and be very successful in. Quitting was a difficult decision to make but I am so much happier to have the security of a (very well) paid place on a grad scheme and a guaranteed qualification and career path now. I hate uncertainty!! Now I can enjoy the rest of my maternity leave without the stress of waiting to hear back from courses. I hope this post was helpful or reassuring in some way for people and I wish people the best of luck in whatever they choose to do :)

laydee89
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by laydee89 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:35 pm

This pretty much sums up how I have experienced this process and how I am feeling at the moment. This is my third time applying in 4 years and I am seriously considering not applying again if I don't get a place this year. I don't know how much longer I can keep putting my life on hold in the hope of getting onto the training. The training is all I ever wanted to do and planned for since picking psychology as an A level when I was 17. I've always thought psychology was the only thing I can do, but now I am starting to think about other career options. At age 29, I feel a bit panicked and like it's 'too late' to change career now.

I find the lack of feedback at application stage very difficult as I constantly wonder where I went wrong. I took a £6000 pay cut from my job to take an AP post, which was great experience, however meant I have to leave the flat I was renting and move back with family. My 12 month contract on my current flat is up in May but I don't know where I will be living yet (if I need to move at all!).

I think this is my last year as I need to consider stability and finances now. It is really hard to think about giving up on something I've worked towards for so long (every education and career choice for the past decade or so!). It's a long old journey when you look back.

I am wondering if anyone else has plan B careers in mind and what these might be? [not sure if this should be a separate thread?]. I went from working as an AP to working developing psychosocial content for an online platform. This is a super interesting role and one I can stay in as an alternative to CP training.
Hannah, you've summed up exactly how I felt. But it is NEVER too late to change career! I'm 27 and thought I'd be years older than everyone else at my interview for this grad scheme but there were a couple of other people my age, and my interviewer told me that about a third of the intake of 80 each year have had a few years since graduating.

lingua_franca
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by lingua_franca » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:02 pm

laydee89, there a few Plan B threads floating about (some of them serious, some tongue-in-cheek :) ).

I've never even applied for the DClinPsy. I joined the forum to help me make up my mind between speech language therapy and psychology, ended up moving overseas to work in the humanitarian and development field, did a PhD in that area (a community psychology/cultural anthropology crossover), started my SaLT course, and found that while I could see myself enjoying the career I didn't want another four years as an undergrad - the pace felt stultifying and my tutor wasn't very supportive of my disabilities. I got an exciting-looking postdoc position and decided I would try and pick up some AP experience on the side, ready to apply for clinical when the postdoc ends. Then, as I was snuggled up with my hot water bottle and a cup of tea one night, feeling very cosy and generally happy with life and how the day had gone, I thought to myself, "Why am I already thinking about what to do next when I'm really liking this postdoc? It doesn't make sense." With that I stopped planning out my career moves like a chess grandmaster. I have no idea what I'll do after the postdoc, I'm focusing on the here and now, and I don't know if it's coincidental but I feel much happier and more productive for it. I could see myself being contented in a range of jobs, so I think people who say that CP shouldn't become a holy grail are right - it's interesting, but there's no shortage of other interesting stuff out there.
"Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
"Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
Piglet was comforted by this.
- A.A. Milne.

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stephenkingfan
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by stephenkingfan » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:48 pm

Laydee89 & lingua_franca, great to hear both of your stories and experiences. I agree, CP is 'just' a job, but it's so hard to think about giving up something you've planned towards for so long. I do feel it is the right decision for this to be my last year in applying. I too need some stability and security in my life and find this process year on year quite unsettling.

Best of luck to everyone with their chosen career paths!

sumamo
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Post by sumamo » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:00 pm

I would love to hear from anyone who has been through this in Ireland, about their plan B. AP posts are very rare and usually only 1 year. There seems to be no alternative to CP training, that you can actually stay in as a career.

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curadh
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by curadh » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:29 pm

I completely agree with Rapid's posts and decision to 'end the madness' of this process.

This is my fourth year trying, and I haven't got much left of my 30s. I have sacrificed everything for the past 10 years, like many, re-locating way too often, spending days writing applications for jobs and courses, experiencing heartbreak leaving temporary homes and watching friendships fade, putting settling down and love relationships on the back-burner, not being able to do much due to barely surviving on the measly well-below average assistant's wage, working for free and living off savings as not available for job-seeker's allowance, trying to keep things moving on a shoestring the whole time, being strung along from October to June every year, not having a profession despite two degrees and years of quality experience...... the list of frustration goes on and on and on....

I have two interviews this year and seriously considering withdrawing also.. struggling to see 'why' anymore. I was well-accomplished before this process and earning well and achieving, since then this process has had me at the depths of personal hell, I won't go into that too much except to say that a large part of me wishes I never started it.

But like many, I have put so much into it, and in that lies the problem, not wanting to quit now when so close to getting there. I have so much experience and so much to offer, I have changed a lot of people's lives and these skills and experiences ought to be recognised. I think to myself just keep going and maybe things will be different once I get onto the course, can finally have a 'profession' and be able to attend events like normal people and actually have a life...

I hope this post is read and not 'edited' to tell people rubbish such as 'it'll be worth it in the end' and skim over the 'warts n'all' description I've provided.

curadh
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Re: Deciding to withdraw from the process

Post by curadh » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:14 pm

I've brightened up a bit this evening after writing that post. It's probably good to have it there for people to reflect on what they are potentially signing up for. I'm probably an example of someone who became 'blinkered' for a long time and couldn't see any alternatives.

It's not the fault of the profession if suddenly everyone wants to be a clinical psychologist - they can't let everyone in as there's not enough funding for that.

I think it would be helpful for the profession to begin liaising with other areas of psychology and consider linking in to that expertise, not only for the genuine need to spread work out, but maybe to raise the profile of alternative career choices for people with psychology-related aspirations.

Would it be useful for this site to be less one-tracked and begin to invite discussion on other areas. I do feel the root of the problem is the fantasy of clinical psychology being some sort of pinnacle career when it is really just a job.

I think in my case, and yes hindsight is wonderful, I would have backed out years ago if I knew I would have to wait so long. It would be nice to be able to advise someone not to put their life on hold for it etc., but reality is that the opportunities are few, salaries are low, and the work itself can be very demanding with a lot of personal study and work to be done behind the scenes. From experience no career is easy, and no career is without its frustrations, but clinical psychology takes the biscuit.

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