Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

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Maango
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Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by Maango » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:21 pm

Hi guys! Hope the new year is treating you all well! :D

I'm back with another dilemma in what role I should pick!! I've been offered a trainee pwp role and an assistant psych role and I'm undecided about which one I should go for! Looking through the forum I have found a lot of similar threads, however most of these date back to 2013/2014, and being in 2018 I know times a'changing! Let me put things into a bit of perspective...

Trainee pwp role:
Full time role, close to my home town (so no need to pay rent, considering the low salary you are employed on with this role), Insight healthcare, so not necessarily NHS. Typical responsibilities of a PWP, which I'm sure most people will be aware of, I've been told there is a lot of work with clients over the phone!

Assistant psych role:
3 days a week in the NHS (although will need to pay rent as the role is in London, however it is higher pay than the PWP role which means stability in my finances and survival! :lol: ). Main responsibilities include assessment of dementia in the elderly using tools such as the RBANS, along with support around intervention. Group supervision is provided by a clinpsych once a month, whilst weekly supervision is provided by a CBT nurse specialist (I guess this will mainly be service as opposed to clinical supervision).

I currently work as a full time AP in a neuro-rehabilitation setting for brain injury. Although my desire is to go with the AP role as its less hours (better work/life balance), experience with a client group I have not worked with before, and in the NHS (I currently do not have any experience working in the NHS). I am still torn between the trainee pwp role as it offers the qualification (my plan b). In my eyes, the PWP qualification gives me the stability for the future to be employed in this clinical role should clinical psychology not work out for me, although I am aware that PWP work is very different to work of a psychologist.

Reading people's experience, I have noticed that the traditional route is to be employed as a PWP and then gain an AP role - I guess my concern here is that already being in a position of an AP role, am I taking a step backwards if I were to now take the trainee PWP role when another AP role is available? It appears that people will go into an AP role from a PWP as opposed to the other way round?

I am understanding that looking at the "What exp did you have when you got onto training" thread, there are many people who have gained a spot on training with PWP experience, however how likely is this to occur in this day and age, with training becoming more competitive as the years pass!? And PWP and Psychology being two completely different career paths?...

I guess my main question is, what would you do in this situation with the above factors? :lol:

I'm hoping that this thread becomes a sort of pros and cons list for future readers who may find themselves in the same situation!

Sorry for the long post and thank you in advance to any replies! (hopefully people will reply with their own experiences, knowledge and opinions! >.< )

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maven
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Re: Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by maven » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:38 pm

It isn't a step backwards to go from AP to PWP, it is a step sideways. However, if CP is your goal I'd take the AP role, as it is in the NHS and has CP supervision, but if you are anxious and want a lower level career to fall back on, then being a PWP isn't a bad alternative.

But watch that pejorative language. "The elderly" are not a homogenous mass, older people are individual people who have lived a while already.
Maven.

Wise men talk because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something - Plato
The fool thinks himself to be wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool - Shakespeare

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mungle
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Re: Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by mungle » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:10 am

To echo what Maven has written, I remember training as a PWP with people who had already been APs and then went on to CP training. A PWP post is relevant for any CP training but particularly those courses with a CBT focus e.g. Bath. However, the AP post may be the better option for the reasons Maven outlined above.

xashx
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Re: Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by xashx » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:37 am

congratulations on both offers! in terms of experience, I have done both and found both very useful. however, my experience with insight healthcare in terms of training and progression was not great - a very insular organisation, their in house training is dated and unhelpful. the culture is also very old fashioned, very hierarchical. so not for those that want to progress but on the other hand getting your training is a brilliant opportunity. in my experience id always go with NHS and be supervised by a qualified CP. good luck, interested to know which you choose

ImaginePsych
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Re: Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by ImaginePsych » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:36 pm

To offer a different slant, a PWP role could also open up opportunities to train as a High Intensity CBT therapist. I know this isn't the case in every service but many of my colleagues have progressed into these roles after 2/3 years of qualifying as a PWP. This role, in my opinion, is a career move with equivalent pay banding as a CP and also keeps the door open for the doctorate as I know many PWPs and Hi therapists who have successfully gained places on training.

Like the others have noted I do think there is huge value in receiving CP supervision and gaining an understanding of NHS systems, but from my experience I have never had CP supervision (coming through the IAPT route) and have received 3 interviews for 3 different courses (non-selection test university's) in the last 2 years.

Good luck with whatever you decide :)

ImaginePsych
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Re: Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by ImaginePsych » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:05 pm

I replied to your PM mango but I'm not sure it's sent as it's currently sitting in my outbox. Let me know if you haven't received it.

Imagine

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maven
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Re: Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by maven » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:14 pm

ImaginePsych wrote:I replied to your PM mango but I'm not sure it's sent as it's currently sitting in my outbox. Let me know if you haven't received it.

Imagine
PMs sit in outbox until read, when they move to sent. Its a quirk of the system.

BTW, I'm not sure CBT therapist is a career move with "equivalent pay banding to CP". Do they get above band 7? I've never heard of a consultant CBT therapist in the NHS, for example.
Maven.

Wise men talk because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something - Plato
The fool thinks himself to be wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool - Shakespeare

ImaginePsych
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Re: Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by ImaginePsych » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:45 pm

Thanks Maven, I was wondering why the message was still sat there.

My apologies I should have been more specific in my response. Pay banding is equivalent (band 7) upon qualification. Whilst I appreciate there is more progression within clinical psychology, many IAPT services employ senior therapists which are paid at band 8.

Also I meant 'career move' in comparison to AP type roles which are often temporary and less well paid.

Imagine

bluegoat
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Re: Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by bluegoat » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:20 am

maven wrote:
ImaginePsych wrote:I replied to your PM mango but I'm not sure it's sent as it's currently sitting in my outbox. Let me know if you haven't received it.

Imagine
PMs sit in outbox until read, when they move to sent. Its a quirk of the system.

BTW, I'm not sure CBT therapist is a career move with "equivalent pay banding to CP". Do they get above band 7? I've never heard of a consultant CBT therapist in the NHS, for example.
Yes they do. I've met CBT therapists who are 8a, 8b, and 8c. And yesterday I met one who is 8d.

I'm not sure Consultant CBT therapist exists as a title (yet). Usually these roles have a specific title, ie Clinical Lead, Director of Mental Health, etc and whether you are a Consultant Whatever or not doesn't make a difference.

Here are a couple of examples...

8a https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/xi/vacancy/c194 ... =914994423
8b https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/xi/vacancy/2453 ... =914979716

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maven
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Re: Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by maven » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:39 pm

I've known of therapy service leads and experienced supervisors who are an 8a like that first one. But the other roles are not specific to a CBT therapist, and are in fact a step into management, and rest on management experience rather than being a CBT therapist. CP is arguably different because there are established pathways for career progression that include posts banded at consultant grade that are specific to CPs.
Maven.

Wise men talk because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something - Plato
The fool thinks himself to be wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool - Shakespeare

bluegoat
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Re: Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by bluegoat » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:39 pm

Fair point. But most (if not all) IAPT Clinical Lead posts ask for a CBT qualification, and these are banded at 8c or 8d.

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BlueCat
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Re: Trainee PWP vs. Assistant psych

Post by BlueCat » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:38 pm

That 8b post requires a doctoral qualification, so not really a good example of where a cbt qualification can take you.
There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes. Billy Connolly.

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